Motability Fraud Exposed,no Wonder We're Skint When We Throw It Away.

[SNACR]

I think all cars funded by motability should all be required to have prominent sign writing on them advertising the motability scheme - those with genuine need and without sufficient resources of their own wouldn't give a toss about it.

The other scandalous thing seems to be the CEOs £1.5m package which seems far too large for an organisation reliant on public money.

[Si1]

I think all cars funded by motability should all be required to have prominent sign writing on them advertising the motability scheme - those with genuine need and without sufficient resources of their own wouldn't give a toss about it.

The other scandalous thing seems to be the CEOs £1.5m package which seems far too large for an organisation reliant on public money.

even better - open them up to commercial advertising, by law, to help pay for the scheme, within tasteful restraints of course, limited to a sensible sized panel

[Lepista]

The other scandalous thing seems to be the CEOs £1.5m package which seems far too large for an organisation reliant on public money.

Wait a minute - I thought people were saying that it's a charity. So it's a charity, funded by the government?

[thod]

I recall these:

[Ritters]

I think at a minimum you should be physically capable of changing a wheel before you are considered physically capable of driving a car.

At a wild guess that would clear about 50% of the cars from the roads.

[Stainless Sam]

I think you are being blinded by the fact this is your mother. Which is understandable. She clearly has physical issues that will make her driving more dangerous than the 'average' person. You dont need to be a Doctor and to have examined her to know that. Not saying that is right or fair. Just reality.

Motor insurance for disabled people is significantly cheaper than for the general public. Because we don't (on average) drive like nobbs, have accidents or do as many miles. That's reality, chum.

[SNACR]

Wait a minute - I thought people were saying that it's a charity. So it's a charity, funded by the government?

Loads of charities have been having government funding where their work is seen as overlapping with public services.

[miko]

As HPC Regular said about 4 pages ago, this is just another piece of poorly researched sensationaliist tripe from the Daily Heil.

Yes, there are some very nice cars on the list, and they all involve a big up-front payment by the user. There is nothing terribly speedy available, Motabilty do not do any cars above a certain, fairly modest insurance group. If you are a full-blown wheelchair user needing something highly adapted, the up-front payment can be well over £20k and the term up to seven years.

I don't doubt that the scheme gets abused somehow, just as everything else in a democratic, capitalist, free-market society gets abused. Welcome to the real world.

I'm eligible to use the scheme. The last twice that I've needed a new car I've looked to see if the numbers stacked up. Both times, after doing a Net Present Value calculation, followed by some hard-nosed negotiating at my local VW dealer I concluded that it would be cheaper to buy my own car and pay for all the adaptions, using my own cash. Which I did. But for some people, the Motability scheme is a life line.

Perhaps some posters would be happy to see disabled people still driving around in the bright blue two-stroke plastic pigs of the 1970's. Which, by the way, were horrendously expensive to manufacture, supply and operate. And a death trap.

Incidentaly, I'm paying a disproportionate share of my hard-earned taxes towards the subsidy for the Tube in London. Without me, all those over-paid bankers couldn't afford to get to work. I want my money back.

I know someone who got a BMW sport a few years back on mobility the upfront payment was £2,500 . If someone on benefits can save £2,500 the question should be asked are they not getting to much in benefits ? it never was and the truth is they did not save the £2,500 they borrowed it on a high interest CC.

A few months later with about £15k on high interest CC, they declared themselves bankrupt. As he was on DLA no money can be taken from him to pay his creditors he just walked into court and back out again all debt's cleared . His car is not touched or his home as both are provided free . Compare that with other bankrupt's who are allowed to keep their cars if they can prove that they need them for work and their value is under £2000 anything more and they are taken and sold by the Court.

[ccc]

Agreed, she is not going to be the next Michael Schumacher. But at the same time, she's no worse than the girls on their phones not concentrating, no worse than retarded White van man or the rep cutting corners..... or those bloody Orientals who are just seemingly all shockingly bad in how they drive. She is dangerous, but in a different way to others. And to be fair to her, her parking is impeccable.....

I am with you, to be honest, I would rather she didn't drive - but she passes the tests - I insisted on a medical at the Quacks because she couldn't live with herself if the worst happened and it was her fault for driving whilst unfit..... as and when she becomes unfit to, or I think she is, again, we'll be back at the Quacks. But the issue over DLA will still be there, until she hits 65, because she will still have someone to ferry her about (my dad) because she can't walk that far....

Fair dos. Some of the driving in this country is incredible. I think it is getting worse as well.

[Stainless Sam]

I know someone who got a BMW sport a few years back on mobility the upfront payment was £2,500 . If someone on benefits can save £2,500 the question should be asked are they not getting to much in benefits ? it never was and the truth is they did not save the £2,500 they borrowed it on a high interest CC.

A few months later with about £15k on high interest CC, they declared themselves bankrupt. As he was on DLA no money can be taken from him to pay his creditors he just walked into court and back out again all debt's cleared . His car is not touched or his home as both are provided free . Compare that with other bankrupt's who are allowed to keep their cars if they can prove that they need them for work and their value is under £2000 anything more and they are taken and sold by the Court.

Your mate doesn't own the car. It's leased. He's even worse off than the bankrupt who "needs his car for work". At least the other guy has £2000 of equity to pi$$ up the wall..

[Lepista]

Fair dos. Some of the driving in this country is incredible. I think it is getting worse as well.

The solution isn't to let others less able on the roads.

[billybong]

From wikipedia:

Contract Hire Option

The most popular option, chosen by over 95% of customers, is the contract hire of a new car, which offers worry free motoring at affordable prices. Customers choose a new car every three or five years with insurance, road tax, servicing, tyres and breakdown cover all included in a single monthly payment. This payment is made automatically by the Department for Work and Pensions to Motability Operations under the authority of a form CP50 signed by the hirer. At the end of the contract period, the customer can choose to take another brand new vehicle. The customer may also wish to purchase their current vehicle directly from Motability at the end of their contract either for their own use or a friend's.

While many vehicles do not require the customer to pay anything above their higher rate Mobility component, the customer may choose to opt for a higher specified model on payment of an Advance Payment which is non-returnable. Means tested grants are available to those who, due to the nature of their disability, have no option but to choose a vehicle which attracts an advance payment, or who may need special adaptations not already funded through the scheme. Many adaptations, such as push/pull brake/accelerator levers, are now also funded directly through the scheme so that the customer does not have to pay extra.

Hire Purchase Option

Alternatively, recipients of the higher rate mobility component of Disability Living Allowance can purchase a new or used vehicle via a hire purchase scheme over up to 5 years.However, this option does not include servicing, replacement tyres, insurance or breakdown cover. The hire purchase payments are made automatically by the Department for Work and Pensions to Motability Operations under the authority of a form CP50 signed by the hirer.

The largest fleet operator in Europe and the largest supplier of used cars in the trade, Motability Operations is owned by five major clearing banks – Barclays, HBOS, Lloyds TSB, HSBC and the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Motability Operations’ annual turnover is around £990 million with assets worth £2.5 billion. Any surpluses are continually reinvested in the business. Motability Operations sells over 130,000 used cars a year and the company's car purchases account for approximately six percent of total new car sales in the UK. Since the Scheme started, over two million cars have been supplied.

So the banks own the operations which helps to explain why it's so open to fraud.

Apart from the basic operations they must make an absolute fortune from the loan/lease/hpc agreements, insurance, breakdown cover etc etc. No wonder it's so open to fraud.

[Si1]

The solution isn't to let others less able on the roads.

thing is, althoug oldies seem to be physically less competent, they also drive much slower, and I have never seen an accident caused by one of them, or seen statistics to suggest they are dangerous - if they were, then their insurance would be the same as for a 20 year old, and it isn't, so they're not

[SarahBell]

I recall these:

That'll do instead of fancy cars won't it?

[Lepista]

thing is, althoug oldies seem to be physically less competent, they also drive much slower, and I have never seen an accident caused by one of them, or seen statistics to suggest they are dangerous - if they were, then their insurance would be the same as for a 20 year old, and it isn't, so they're not

We're getting OT now, but I favour the idea that people should have to take a driving test every, say, five years to prove that they are still competent to drive. It would also be a useful measure to make people who get points on their licence have to retake the test in order to get their licence back.

Anyway, back to topic...

[tomandlu]

but it's not jsut the £51,it's the VAT they don't pay.the motability scheme is a charity.who pays the servicign and road tax................?not out of the £51

Whatever - we seem to have gone from "poles with sprained wrists are running over our kids in ferraris bought for them by the tax-payer" or something, to £51 quid for a couple of oldies, plus some discounts on some taxes, plus some help from a charity.

[Guest eight]

As for changing a wheel - you have got to be joking. Half the men in the UK can't do that, I'd wager. And far more women. Most wheels these days are put on by air tool - they are too tight for many people to loosen - and you think people should be denied driving because they can't do something that happens once every 110,000 miles or so..... righto, I think you're actually making the argument that all Motability cars should be BMW - they've almost all got runflats....

They are put on by air tool to a specific torque - which is approximately equal to hand tight. So they can be removed by hand......

It isn't just changing a wheel though - ideally you need to be able to extricate yourself or others from vehicles, clear obstructions, warn other traffic, maybe even physically move a vehicle if it came down to it. Not just sit there revelling in your own incapability.

[tomandlu]

They are put on by air tool to a specific torque - which is approximately equal to hand tight. So they can be removed by hand......

It isn't just changing a wheel though - ideally you need to be able to extricate yourself or others from vehicles, clear obstructions, warn other traffic, maybe even physically move a vehicle if it came down to it. Not just sit there revelling in your own incapability.

So, basically, Superman gets to drive but the rest of us have to walk?

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

As for changing a wheel - you have got to be joking. Half the men in the UK can't do that, I'd wager. And far more women. Most wheels these days are put on by air tool - they are too tight for many people to loosen - and you think people should be denied driving because they can't do something that happens once every 110,000 miles or so..... righto, I think you're actually making the argument that all Motability cars should be BMW - they've almost all got runflats....

I always make sure I can undo them. Also, I never jack then undo. I always loosen slighty first before I jack.

[tomandlu]

x550,000..............so that's ok then.

That would be the 'fraud' bit (see earlier post).

[ccc]

I always make sure I can undo them. Also, I never jack then undo. I always loosen slighty first before I jack.

Thats because if you jack first you can't undo.

Lesson learned aged 17 with first puncture. Took me about 2 hours to change. Now probably 10 mins - if that.

Actually it is part of the driving test now - I think ?

[Surf's Up]

I have read some semi-literate, hate-inspired, ignorant tripe on this forum over the last couple of years but I'm struggling to think of much to match this:

"there are far too many accidents caused by people not having quick enough reactions times, not paying attention etc. if a disabled person is able to drive a motor vehicle then they are fit enough not to receive this benifit (sic)."

Of course this is a scheme which some people abuse, and those who do should be hammered. But don't let the Daily Hate make you think disabled people are the enemy or the reason your own life didn't turn out as you had hoped, which is the vibe I get from many on this thread.

[Rachman]

I always make sure I can undo them. Also, I never jack then undo. I always loosen slighty first before I jack.

Yes, because the YTS spanner monkey always sets it correctly, and doesn't just whack it on, rock solid. Not being daft, but as a former hammer thrower, I have been beaten by a couple of wheel nuts in the past - and on one of them, even using an extension on the brace wouldn't shift it....

I know exactly how to change a wheel, and am capable of it - would you like my wife, not four months after a Caesarian, to be trying that sort of exertion ? Don't tell me, she shouldn't be out in a car then, let alone driving one....

I have male mates who don't have the strength to do it - there's nothing wrong with them, they are just lightweight and don't have the ability to loosen what Gaz the monkey did up.

actually, on the 5 there is NO jack, it has runflats - I wanted to take the wheels off the clean the backs properly - even my trolley jack wouldn't fit without damaging the underbody....... the lugs are too small....... designed to make sure you use a main dealer to change the wheels - and they apparently don't do adaptor lugs to fit normal jacks....

[Guest eight]

So, basically, Superman gets to drive but the rest of us have to walk?

Changing a wheel is easy. You should try it some time just so you know how. The other stuff could be done by most people in extremis, I would say, by most reasonably healthy people.

We are talking here about people who are supposed to have such poor mobility that they are receiving a state benefit. I would argue that in order to qualify they should be so physically incapacitated that driving a car should be out of the question. It is a physical activity, at the end of the day.

[Rachman]

Changing a wheel is easy. You should try it some time just so you know how. The other stuff could be done by most people in extremis, I would say, by most reasonably healthy people.

We are talking here about people who are supposed to have such poor mobility that they are receiving a state benefit. I would argue that in order to qualify they should be so physically incapacitated that driving a car should be out of the question. It is a physical activity, at the end of the day.

And remind me, those people to physically incapacitated to drive, should they get motability to be driven around. In fact, you'd actually be encouraging the fraudsters, because a disabled person couldn't drive themselves, so it would have to be lent to someone else to drive and you'd also be discouraging people from admitting health problems to the DVLA, causing more accidents....

Driving isn't that physical, Christ, have you driven anything with an electrically assisted steering rack and an autobox recently, it's like a 1980's computer game....