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Local Government Pension Gap Balloons 73% To £71.5Bn

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Isolate the orgnaisations.

Tie them to the pension deficit.

If they fail to pay the pension AND deliver the services then let them fail and a new LA take over.

Simples.

Worked in the private sector.

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It's pensions more than anything (including bankers), that are causing the financial system of the west to collapse. Too many promises have been made that cant be fulfilled.

Think of it like this, assume everyone is the same age, everyone saves 40 years for a pension then retires. The day that they retire, because no one is working anymore, their pensions have a value of zero, the money isnt worth anything because there is no one willing to do work to take that money. The UK has kicked the can down the road with massive immigration, but that has caused worse problems in terms of unaffordable housing for the young, a poor trade for a bit more time.

Other countries in Europe dont have as much time. There are huge demographic problems in terms of retirees in Spain, Italy, Germany, and I assume Greece (given has how they retire there so early). It is this more than anything else that has led to huge budget deficits, as people move out of taxed work, into benefit assisted retirement.

Council workers in the UK are finding the same. Investment returns fall as we move from a situation of many working and a few retired, to few working and many retired. The market deals with the situation by giving pensioners less. Governments will struggle to overcome this by raising taxes, for a while, until too are overcome by irresistible mathematics.

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On Friday, Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, outlined Government plans to make public sector staff work until they are 66 before they can retire, rather than the current 60.

Maybe he should stick a broom up their backside and get them to sweep the streets on their way back from work too.

Where's all this pension money gone anyway?

Guess that's what happens when the fox, rooster and hound, watching over the hen house, split a chicken each night, eventually all the chickens are gone.

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It's pensions more than anything (including bankers), that are causing the financial system of the west to collapse. Too many promises have been made that cant be fulfilled.

Nah, it's bankers. They are the ones who made the promises rack up using their wacky FRB scams.

Money as debt etc etc

on the OP -

This stuff cannot be paid, so it won't be paid.

The politics of it mean that people will footstamp there way into a destroyed currency.

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Where's all this pension money gone anyway?

Was it ever going to be there anyway. 11 year of disastrous investment performance, lower mortality, a decade of wage increase way beyond inflation. This ponzi could never hope to succeed.

No worries these workers have special dispensation from God, their benefits to date are secure despite the overall 1.5 trillion black hole across the pubic sector, there's no risk when you have unions on your side. It's all part of Broon's social crusade, and f**k the unborn who will pay these debts in 2050.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Was it ever going to be there anyway. 11 year of disastrous investment performance, lower mortality, a decade of wage increase way beyond inflation. This ponzi could never hope to succeed.

No worries these workers have special dispensation from God, their benefits to date are secure despite the overall 1.5 trillion black hole across the pubic sector, there's no risk when you have unions on your side. It's all part of Broon's social crusade, and f**k the unborn who will pay these debts in 2050.

The Local Government Pension scheme is not a ponzi scheme. It is funded.

The problem, as I have pointed out, is that when demographics change, the likely returns on investment change as well. As the LGPS is so huge, it is almost impossible for it to overcome the maths of increased longevity and falling birth rates. The value of money itself changes dont you know.

And much as I despise lots of Politicians, who have made the situation worse, there is nothing in reality that can be done. Its just maths. Blaming Broon on this one makes no sense, you might as well have a pop at him because PI isnt exactly 3 so making it tricky to do calculations with.

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And much as I despise lots of Politicians, who have made the situation worse, there is nothing in reality that can be done.

Actually there are lots of things that can be done. I can think of several quite brutal measures off the top of my head.

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Good points about the smaller younger generation leading to lower investment returns.

I think to make these pensions, we would have to get really serious about mass immigration. I'm talking going to like 1 million a year, from just 500,000. And making sure every new immigrant is in their 20's.

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The Local Government Pension scheme is not a ponzi scheme. It is funded.

The problem, as I have pointed out, is that when demographics change, the likely returns on investment change as well. As the LGPS is so huge, it is almost impossible for it to overcome the maths of increased longevity and falling birth rates. The value of money itself changes dont you know.

And much as I despise lots of Politicians, who have made the situation worse, there is nothing in reality that can be done. Its just maths. Blaming Broon on this one makes no sense, you might as well have a pop at him because PI isnt exactly 3 so making it tricky to do calculations with.

I am going to correct myself here.

When a pension scheme runs in to deficit, ie there are more liabities than assets, and those running the scheme instead of either closing it down, or doing something to make good the deficit (reducing liabilities or increasing assets), but instead take on new members and liabilities in the hope that something will turn up, at that point it does become a Ponzi scheme, as you have people paying into the scheme who are allocated 'entitlements', but without the assets to make good on everyones expected entitlements.

And this is the situation now with lots of LGP Schemes. So my first answer was wrong.

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Good points about the smaller younger generation leading to lower investment returns.

I think to make these pensions, we would have to get really serious about mass immigration. I'm talking going to like 1 million a year, from just 500,000. And making sure every new immigrant is in their 20's.

Erm.. and make sure they pay tax and don't take benefits themselves..

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The Local Government Pension scheme is not a ponzi scheme. It is funded.

The problem, as I have pointed out, is that when demographics change, the likely returns on investment change as well. As the LGPS is so huge, it is almost impossible for it to overcome the maths of increased longevity and falling birth rates. The value of money itself changes dont you know.

And much as I despise lots of Politicians, who have made the situation worse, there is nothing in reality that can be done. Its just maths. Blaming Broon on this one makes no sense, you might as well have a pop at him because PI isnt exactly 3 so making it tricky to do calculations with.

Hey, the bankers ahve been telling everyone there is plenty of resources via the magic of FRB banking and the lies they tell (IOU's are savings etc)

The problem with all banking being fraud isn't that the population has failed to be fooled enough to make lies reality. :lol:

While some pension funds might appear to be funded, they'll be funded by assets which are ponzified and will probably turn out to be worthless. BTL, anyone?

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The Local Government Pension scheme is not a ponzi scheme. It is funded.

The problem, as I have pointed out, is that when demographics change, the likely returns on investment change as well. As the LGPS is so huge, it is almost impossible for it to overcome the maths of increased longevity and falling birth rates. The value of money itself changes dont you know.

And much as I despise lots of Politicians, who have made the situation worse, there is nothing in reality that can be done. Its just maths. Blaming Broon on this one makes no sense, you might as well have a pop at him because PI isnt exactly 3 so making it tricky to do calculations with.

The small matter of salaries being pushed beyond what this country can afford, Broon's crusade made hourly rates in the public sector higher than the private sector (fact) with the gold plated salaries as an extra to boot. Now we have the starting salaries for a teacher at $35,000 compared with $30,000 in the states ; yet their GDP per capita is 50% higher.The fact is these pensions are salary not contribution based.

But you have the promises safeguarded to date, the ponzi (and it is the biggest ponzi in the history of this country) will not fail like private sector schemes such as Equitable Life because you have the 1.5 trillion bail out on the labours of the unborn so stop whinging.

Balls is desperate to stop any strike action, he knows the reality of the situation, and he is probably thinking of his own seven figure super-ann pot. No one with an interest in this these schemes should want too much scrutiny. Deficits were lost off balance sheet for a good reason, Enron and Worldcom accounting standards were adopted for a good reason.

Edited by crashmonitor

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While some pension funds might appear to be funded, they'll be funded by assets which are ponzified and will probably turn out to be worthless. BTL, anyone?

And you can be sure the pension managers do not apply mark to market accounting when it comes to all the s**t they have loaded up with to cover their impossible promises.

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Nah, it's bankers. They are the ones who made the promises rack up using their wacky FRB scams.

Money as debt etc etc

on the OP -

This stuff cannot be paid, so it won't be paid.

The politics of it mean that people will footstamp there way into a destroyed currency.

Brilliant summation.

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When a pension scheme runs in to deficit, ie there are more liabities than assets, and those running the scheme instead of either closing it down, or doing something to make good the deficit (reducing liabilities or increasing assets), but instead take on new members and liabilities in the hope that something will turn up, at that point it does become a Ponzi scheme, as you have people paying into the scheme who are allocated 'entitlements', but without the assets to make good on everyones expected entitlements.

They have reduced liabilities by cutting index-linking from RPI to CPI

They are increasing assets by paying in more money.

It's just that high inflation, poor investment returns and people living longer are moving the goalposts faster than they can keep up.

Letting in new members neither helps nor hinders the past service deficit.

It is NOT a ponzi scheme.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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