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Injin

Spain: Madrid 'euro-Pact' Protesters Take To Streets

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13833093

Tens of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets of Madrid and other Spanish cities in a mass march against austerity measures, social spending cuts and unemployment.

Youth activists dubbed "the indignant" recently started a three-week sit-in in Madrid to pressure the government.

The rallying slogan of protesters is A Europe for its Citizens.

They fear that the Euro-pact, which is intended to improve eurozone competitiveness, will mean more cuts.

No leadership

On Sunday, the protesters streamed in from all sides of the capital, chanting, banging drums and waving placards. Some walked for as long as five hours - and by early afternoon a vast crowd had converged close to parliament.

The slogans and chants are the same: against mass unemployment and social spending cuts, and in opposition to European-wide austerity measures.

"It's important to take to the streets because a series of measures are being taken by those in power - like the Euro-pact, for example - making Europe belong to the bankers and not the people," one woman protester said.

"We are all against bankers, money and capital - and against corruption and the misuse of public money. That's why we're angry," said a male demonstrator.

There is no leadership to this protest movement - it has no structure - but it does appear to have widespread social support. There are now calls to seize the momentum and stage a nationwide general strike.

In Spain, youth unemployment is more than 43%. The economic crisis has left more than a million families without a single wage-earner.

One of the main slogans along the route was "no to violence", after a demonstration in Barcelona last week ended in clashes with police.

Hundreds of extra officers have been deployed in Madrid for this march. The area around parliament itself has been sealed off as a precaution.

There are dozens more rallies taking place all over Spain this evening; and on Monday, groups from as far away as Seville and Valencia will begin a month-long march to the capital.

More fun.

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They are asking for an 'Icelanding' revolution...

Let's hope this will catch on.

By the way the reporting in the British press about this seems almost non-existant, there is a very good article with lots of details in the biggest Italian newspaper 'la Repubblica', but obviously in Italian here:

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2011/06/19/news/madrid_indignados_chiedono_sciopero_generale-17924203/

Some of the things the protesters are saying are quite similar to what we say here on HPC.co.uk, some quotes translated:

Su cartelli e striscioni a Madrid tanti i messaggi di ribellione a una crisi provocata da banchieri e governi 'a loro sottomessi', e gli appelli a una 'rivoluzione all'islandesè: "Questa crisi non è la nostra, non la paghiamo", "Non siamo merci nelle mani di politici e banchieri", "Dormivamo e ci siamo svegliati!", "Non resteremo muti anche se fate i sordi!". "Le banche e i governi che hanno favorito questa situazione devono sapere che non siamo d'accordo con le misure e i giri di vite che sono stati decisi, e che siamo determinati a manifestarci" ha chiarito la piattaforma 'Spanishrevolution' indicando l'Islanda dei cittadini che per referendum si sono opposti ai 'diktat delle banche' come l'esempio da seguire.

Translation by me:

On the signs and banners in Madrid are many messages of rebellion to a crisis created by the bankers and their helpers the governments, calls for an Icelandic revolution: "this crisis is not ours we won't pay for it", "we aren't pawns in the hands of politicians and bankers", "we were asleep but now we woke up!", "we won't stay silent even if you pretend to be deaf!". "The banks and the governments that have caused this situation need to know that we don't agree with the measures and the belt-tightening that has been decided, and we are determined to continue to protest", the platform 'Spanishrevolution' clarifies, indicating that the example set by the Icelandic citizens with their referendums opposing the diktats of the banks is the example to follow.

Also other reports mention 40.000 - 150.000 protesters, not 25.000 as the BBC tries to suggest...

--

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World Cup holders, Euro holders, Champions League holders but cant work a calculator.

You don't need a calculator to figure out that we are experiencing the results of a broken fractional reserve banking system, designed to ensure that a tiny minority lives off the back of the common people.

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Taken from the State condiut, shameless!

Very encouraging stuff, apart from the commitment to non-violence.

The only way to carry that off successfully is with a general strike, and they appear to have no organisation.

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Taken from the State condiut, shameless!

Very encouraging stuff, apart from the commitment to non-violence.

The only way to carry that off successfully is with a general strike, and they appear to have no organisation.

Spain has a history of being unorganised, which I seem to recall reached a zenith when anarchists during the civil war refused to organise their armed forces into any sort of hierarchy to give it any fighting effectiveness, because it went against their basic principles.

Now we have unemployed people going on strike.

As someone said earlier, they need a calculator, and lessons in how to use one.

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Taken from the State condiut, shameless!

Very encouraging stuff, apart from the commitment to non-violence.

The only way to carry that off successfully is with a general strike, and they appear to have no organisation.

Organised forces can be corralled and beaten, their figureheads co-opted.

Mass opinion where everyone is against something can't be corralled or beaten, short of full on totalitarianism.

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Spain has a history of being unorganised, which I seem to recall reached a zenith when anarchists during the civil war refused to organise their armed forces into any sort of hierarchy to give it any fighting effectiveness, because it went against their basic principles.

Now we have unemployed people going on strike.

As someone said earlier, they need a calculator, and lessons in how to use one.

Not really.

There are infintie euros avilable to all. It's just numbers in a computer.

Bankers need to realise they are useless, their product worthless.

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Not really.

There are infintie euros avilable to all. It's just numbers in a computer.

Bankers need to realise they are useless, their product worthless.

It doesnt matter what the money is, notes and coins, shells, gold, electronic blips, if you spend more of it than you have, you are going to end up in trouble.

And the Bankers product is not worthless, everyone uses it that I know of. It only becomes worthless if people choose not to use it, or so much of it is created that the value goes down to zero. Those things can, and probably will happen given enough time.

The people of Spain and Greece, etc, have taken too much of other people's money, and didnt do the maths for working out how to repay it, leaving everyone in trouble. Time for a bit of moral hazard.

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It doesnt matter what the money is, notes and coins, shells, gold, electronic blips, if you spend more of it than you have, you are going to end up in trouble.

But they have an infinite supply, every human over the age of about 5 does, so they can;'t have run out.

And the Bankers product is not worthless, everyone uses it that I know of. It only becomes worthless if people choose not to use it, or so much of it is created that the value goes down to zero. Those things can, and probably will happen given enough time.

It's worthless and people are forced/tricked into using it. The "acceptance" argument holds about as much water as a sieve.

The people of Spain and Greece, etc, have taken too much of other people's money, and didnt do the maths for working out how to repay it, leaving everyone in trouble. Time for a bit of moral hazard.

As far as I can tell either

1) They have taken electronic digits which needs repaying - in which case it's 3 seconds work with a PC to pay up

or

2) They never recieved any money at all in whch case there is nothing to repay.

Bogeyman bankstering only works unil people stop and reflect. They have stopped, they have reflected and the FRB banking paradigm will now be very shortly over.

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I agree with Injin, once people realize the nature of FRB it is game over for that system. Considering teh banks magiced into existence the money they lent out for mortgages and national debt.. it makes no sense that the people should have to sacrifice and accept a dramatically lower standard of living to pay this debt back.

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The central bankers seem to be getting ready to print again.

Yes, we can imagine Merv singing happily in his bath, to the tune of that annoying hit by Chubby Checker:

Come on everybody clap your hands

Now you're looking good

I'm gonna sing my song and it won't take long

We're gonna have to print ‘cos the nation's skint

Come on let's print again like we did last summer

Yeah, let's print again like we did last year

Do you remember when things were really hummin'

Yeah, let's print again, printin' time is here

Yeah round and around and up and down we go again

Oh people make me know you love me so and then

We'll print again like we did last summer

Come on let's print again, like we did last year

The original:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6I1D8fS6w

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But they have an infinite supply, every human over the age of about 5 does, so they can;'t have run out.

It's worthless and people are forced/tricked into using it. The "acceptance" argument holds about as much water as a sieve.

As far as I can tell either

1) They have taken electronic digits which needs repaying - in which case it's 3 seconds work with a PC to pay up

or

2) They never recieved any money at all in whch case there is nothing to repay.

Bogeyman bankstering only works unil people stop and reflect. They have stopped, they have reflected and the FRB banking paradigm will now be very shortly over.

The central bank could create an infinite amount of the stuff it issues, but they normally dont, as it would put them out of existence. (Might happen to the ECB regardless).

And no 5 year or 25 year old or whatever, can produce the bits of paper or electronic blips that matter. So go on, if you hate they system so much, do 3 seconds work on your PC, and see how much of this stuff you can create. Note, this stuff has to be something that people will trade you for, like Pounds. So have a go, and buy a Plasma TV with your 3 seconds of work, and get it delivered, and I will consider my argument lost.

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I agree with Injin, once people realize the nature of FRB it is game over for that system. Considering teh banks magiced into existence the money they lent out for mortgages and national debt.. it makes no sense that the people should have to sacrifice and accept a dramatically lower standard of living to pay this debt back.

People are getting it.

And that's the big problem for the ECB, who wants the only magic PC on the block.

People power is definitely rattling a few cages . . . in response, there will be a 'Save The Euro' campaign. Sign of the times?

Guardian: Amid a sense of deepening panic and gloom, leading European industrialists are to take out full-page adverts in the French and German press on Tuesday pleading for intervention to save the euro. "A return to a stable financial situation will cost many billions of euros, but the European Union and our common currency are worth every effort," says the advert.

(Note these ads will not be appearing in the Greek press :)

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The central bank could create an infinite amount of the stuff it issues, but they normally dont, as it would put them out of existence. (Might happen to the ECB regardless).

Central bank?

Why not some random 5 year old. just teach little Timmy to press the numbers in the right order and there you are, bankers paid in full.

And no 5 year or 25 year old or whatever, can produce the bits of paper or electronic blips that matter. So go on, if you hate they system so much, do 3 seconds work on your PC, and see how much of this stuff you can create. Note, this stuff has to be something that people will trade you for, like Pounds. So have a go, and buy a Plasma TV with your 3 seconds of work, and get it delivered, and I will consider my argument lost.

No, it doesn't have to be something people will swap you for.

What has been promised has actual, empirical real world characteristics, which can be produced by anyone once the spec has been met.

The acceptance argument is bogus, see through, pathetic. We are hundreds opf years past the enlghtenment at this point, banksters, time to learn about empiricism (and laughter.)

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You don't need a calculator to figure out that we are experiencing the results of a broken fractional reserve banking system, designed to ensure that a tiny minority lives off the back of the common people.

Common people don`t need to borrow? I`m not in debt (yes I know Injin) are you? How many clowns out on the streets lapped up houses, accessories and celeb culture?

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No, it doesn't have to be something people will swap you for.

That is where we differ Injin. As far as I am concerned, if it isnt something that people will accept generally or is used legally to settle a debt or obligation, it is not money.

Your definition of money includes stuff anyone can generate if they are so inclined, that isnt acceptable by the general population or the courts, as payment for anything.

Its all about definition.

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The march from Saville to Madrid reminds me of the Jarrow march for jobs in the UK in the 1920's and 30's. It seems that the Great Depression is here already for some countries.

It's interesting, isn't. All the talk by Merkel & Co has been about rollovers and reprofiles and so on. The austerity part was a given, they thought.

It's obvious that in Spain there isn't much more austerity to give. Youth has 40% unemployment already. Older people are having houses repossessed left and right. (It's been quite vicious in Spain.)

With everyone jobless and homeless, what do you do for an encore?

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Central bank?

Why not some random 5 year old. just teach little Timmy to press the numbers in the right order and there you are, bankers paid in full.

No, it doesn't have to be something people will swap you for.

What has been promised has actual, empirical real world characteristics, which can be produced by anyone once the spec has been met.

The acceptance argument is bogus, see through, pathetic. We are hundreds opf years past the enlghtenment at this point, banksters, time to learn about empiricism (and laughter.)

I think I get it. Through FRB the banks created the debt for Greece out of nothing hoping for it to be monetised and returned with interest (that's just greedy!). If the Greeks default, the banks will lose nothing, but those that bought the imaginary debt will lose and alot of debt was bought by central banks, ergo us, the tax payer. Close?

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I think I get it. Through FRB the banks created the debt for Greece out of nothing hoping for it to be monetised and returned with interest (that's just greedy!). If the Greeks default, the banks will lose nothing, but those that bought the imaginary debt will lose and alot of debt was bought by central banks, ergo us, the tax payer. Close?

Close,

the bankers are agents, it isnt their own money they were using to buy these bonds with, but that of their shareholders. They would take a risk free handsome fee of course.

That leaves the shareholders on the hook, and if there isnt enough equity, it leaves depositors and bondholders on the hook too. And where there are cross holdings of bonds etc, that can cause other banks to fail, costing other depositors and bondholders and shareholders money. And the real kicker is that in a general collapse, the market changes the value of assets, cash becomes king, real assets fall in price. As real assets fall in price, that too drives banks and other companies that hold those assets under, everything just starts to fall apart.

Real trade becomes impossible too, because our supply chains rely on credit to allow products to pass from one stage to the next as the final product is mined, smelted pressed, cut manufactured, assembled and shipped to where it is wanted. Without that credit, the miracle of the modern supply chain disintegrates into dust. And it is those supply chains that give us our real wealth.

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Close,

the bankers are agents, it isnt their own money they were using to buy these bonds with, but that of their shareholders. They would take a risk free handsome fee of course.

That leaves the shareholders on the hook, and if there isnt enough equity, it leaves depositors and bondholders on the hook too. And where there are cross holdings of bonds etc, that can cause other banks to fail, costing other depositors and bondholders and shareholders money. And the real kicker is that in a general collapse, the market changes the value of assets, cash becomes king, real assets fall in price. As real assets fall in price, that too drives banks and other companies that hold those assets under, everything just starts to fall apart.

Real trade becomes impossible too, because our supply chains rely on credit to allow products to pass from one stage to the next as the final product is mined, smelted pressed, cut manufactured, assembled and shipped to where it is wanted. Without that credit, the miracle of the modern supply chain disintegrates into dust. And it is those supply chains that give us our real wealth.

Thanks for that. So the only answer is take the pain or print. It seems we shall get both.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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