Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
inflating

Government Wants To Encourage Self-Building

Recommended Posts

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build" - if so, land must be pretty cheap in that example there. Plots with permission to build are rarely reasonably priced, so not sure what the advantage is in many areas, myself...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Self-Build-Mortgage-Providers-Should-Lend-More-Money-For-Self-Builds-Says-Housing-Minister-Shapps/Article/201106316014124?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_16014124_Self-Build%3A_Mortgage_Providers_Should_Lend_More_Money_For_Self-Builds%2C_Says_Housing_Minister_Shapps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sensible idea from grant shapps but the way to do is by relaxing planning laws not relaxing mortgage lending for self builds as he suggests, as this will simply inflate land prices.

By relaxing planning laws price of land with planning permission will come down making it more affordable to build.

Oh but wait, Shappsie doesnt want prices to fall, he wanted "price stability" for the next 600 years until waged catch up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build" - if so, land must be pretty cheap in that example there. Plots with permission to build are rarely reasonably priced, so not sure what the advantage is in many areas, myself...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Self-Build-Mortgage-Providers-Should-Lend-More-Money-For-Self-Builds-Says-Housing-Minister-Shapps/Article/201106316014124?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_16014124_Self-Build%3A_Mortgage_Providers_Should_Lend_More_Money_For_Self-Builds%2C_Says_Housing_Minister_Shapps

The way that they are going, the only self building they will be encouraging will be of the wattle and daub variety.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way that they are going, the only self building they will be encouraging will be of the wattle and daub variety.

I have been trying to get planning consent on various plots for two years.Planners are obstructive and downright dishonest.My first attempt was encouraged but once the application went in the fees paid and plans drawn they discovered it was against policy.

I currently have a deal with a chap with an acre plot.He reduced his application from 5 to 4.Now they say they want it down to three. Persimmon have built 16 to the acre nearby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been trying to get planning consent on various plots for two years.Planners are obstructive and downright dishonest.My first attempt was encouraged but once the application went in the fees paid and plans drawn they discovered it was against policy.

I currently have a deal with a chap with an acre plot.He reduced his application from 5 to 4.Now they say they want it down to three. Persimmon have built 16 to the acre nearby.

Two years to get a piece of paper signed. That's nuts. I'm guessing NIMBY nonsense is mixed in here somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build" - if so, land must be pretty cheap in that example there. Plots with permission to build are rarely reasonably priced, so not sure what the advantage is in many areas, myself...

The sum mentioned "to build" will be just that and won't include the price of land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if a 4bed costs £150k to build (presumably including land), housebuilders must enjoy making losses in Northants.

bog standard 4bed detached newbuild £138k.

http://www.colyersgardens.co.uk/news/availability/

They were building the same things for £70k in 1996/7 (and making a profit). Given 50% wage inflation and 50% material inflation, a fair price would be £105k. Maybe £150k would be fair in somewhere 'nice' like St Albans. Although last time i was in st albans the roads were falling apart. Instead they'd probably want £500k in St Albans.

juniper.jpg

The Juniper

Type G - Plot Numbers 10, 30, 36

Living/Dining 7.09m x 3.28m 23'3" x 10'9"

Kitchen 4.09m x 3.20m 13'5" x 10'6"

Bedroom 1 3.44m x 2.74m 11'9" x 9'0"

Bedroom 2 3.31m x 2.55m 10'10" x 8'4"

Bedroom 3 3.31m x 2.35m 10'10" x 7'8"

Bedroom 4 3.31m x 2.35m 10'10" x 7'8"

Ensuite 2.05m x 1.29m 6'9" x 4'3"

Bathroom 2.06m x 2.02m 6'9" x 6'8"

Study 2.56m x 1.76m 8'4" x 5'9"

juniper-0.gif

juniper-1.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build" - if so, land must be pretty cheap in that example there. Plots with permission to build are rarely reasonably priced, so not sure what the advantage is in many areas, myself...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Self-Build-Mortgage-Providers-Should-Lend-More-Money-For-Self-Builds-Says-Housing-Minister-Shapps/Article/201106316014124?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_16014124_Self-Build%3A_Mortgage_Providers_Should_Lend_More_Money_For_Self-Builds%2C_Says_Housing_Minister_Shapps

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build"

I find this hard to believe. In 1990, my 4 bed detached with detached double garage cost just 32k to build. I managed to see the building regs paperwork where the builder has to list the building cost. I suspect a 3 bed with internal garage can be built for 70k.

I was afraid that this self build scheme would release land but still at ridiculous prices, and hence beyond most peoples means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build"

I find this hard to believe. In 1990, my 4 bed detached with detached double garage cost just 32k to build. I managed to see the building regs paperwork where the builder has to list the building cost. I suspect a 3 bed with internal garage can be built for 70k.

I was afraid that this self build scheme would release land but still at ridiculous prices, and hence beyond most peoples means.

Exactly. The land Schapps is on about has already been valued at £100k per plot. So already above where the average house price should be and x3.5 earnings before a brick has even been laid. The irony is landowners are gagging to let go of land for "low" values. One near my folks place (about 10 miles outside Cambridge) was willing to sell land for 45 HA properties for £240k IIRC (ie not much more than £5k a plot)

These would have been good sized plots for semis with large front rear and side gardens. The council wanted to approve it before the NIMBYs got involved and put a stop to it. I reckon almost all landowners would be happy to sell an acre for £100k (ie 20 times its agricultural value) which might provide land for 10-12 small detached newbuilds.

I also agree with £70k for a 3bed. They were building them for around £50k in 96/97, PROFITABLY. Again, they can be bought for £105k, but should be no more than £70k in the midlands.

maple.jpg

http://www.colyersgardens.co.uk/news/availability/

The Maple

Type 763 - Plot Numbers 76, 78, 79, 86, 88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 94,126, 127, 129, 131, 134, 136, 137, 160, 161

Living 4.51m x 3.51m 14'9" x 11'6"

Kitchen/Dining 4.18m x 3.55m 13'9" x 11'8"

Bedroom 1 4.51m x 2.96m 14'9" x 9'8"

Bedroom 2 2.98m x 2.46m 9'9" x 8'1"

Bedroom 3 2.04m x 1.99m 6'8" x 6'6"

Bathroom 2.59m x 1.59m 6'6" x 5'3"

maple-0.gif

maple-1.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread confirms that the UK property market is a MASSIVE RIPOFF. House prices are completely out of touch with reality, but fully in-touch with a thing called delusion .... :rolleyes:

IMHO a 3 bed semi in the South East should cost £100,000 MAX, and flats ("apartments" :rolleyes:) should be nearer £50,000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread confirms that the UK property market is a MASSIVE RIPOFF. House prices are completely out of touch with reality, but fully in-touch with a thing called delusion .... :rolleyes:

IMHO a 3 bed semi in the South East should cost £100,000 MAX, and flats ("apartments" :rolleyes:) should be nearer £50,000.

looking at the construction costs of these tower blocks, they cost far MORE to build than small houses, given all the steel, cranes and engineers they require.

If the market were left to its own devices, i doubt flats exist outside of the best parts of London and maybe Edinburgh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mortgage providers have been urged to lend more money to people who want to build their own homes to help spark a "self-build revolution".

There is so much in that to mess with your head. Shapps heralding the opportunity banks have to lend to self builders, when the banks risk assessment for plot costs, build costs, and view of the borrower to service the loan has seen them restrict funding.

And or, fewer people wanting to borrow £150K to self build.

Self-builder Jackson Moulding lives at Ashley Vale in Bristol, a community project of 40 homes. He says self-building is the answer to rising repossessions.

WTF? The answer to rising repossessions?

The Ashley Vale in Bristol community project is quite interesting. The plot and build costs for each house are included in the PDF link below. I still think they've overpaid on the plot costs, and the build costs could be lower in the future market.

PDF http://www.community...hley%20Vale.pdf

Edited by Venger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"4-bed costs approx £150 000 to build" - if so, land must be pretty cheap in that example there. Plots with permission to build are rarely reasonably priced, so not sure what the advantage is in many areas, myself...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Self-Build-Mortgage-Providers-Should-Lend-More-Money-For-Self-Builds-Says-Housing-Minister-Shapps/Article/201106316014124?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_16014124_Self-Build%3A_Mortgage_Providers_Should_Lend_More_Money_For_Self-Builds%2C_Says_Housing_Minister_Shapps

The site "Home Building" has a "Build Cost Guide", and then a table showing average costs, varying from £700/sqm to £1,800sqm, depending on these 5 factors:

  • Build Routes: (DIY+SUBCONTRACTORS) (SUBCONTRACTORS) (BUILDER+SUBBIES) (MAIN CONTRACTOR)

  • Build Quality: Standard, Good, or Excellent

  • Single or Two Storey

  • Size (sq.m.): up to 90, 91-160, 161+

  • Region of the country: (Greater London), (South-East), (NW, SW, East & Scotland), (Mids, Yorks, NE & Wales)

Page: http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/self-build/project-tool-kit/build-cost-calculator

Average Building Costs Table PDF file: "Costs June 11_Layout 1-1.pdf" http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/files/ascent-homebuilding/Costs%20June%2011_Layout%201-1.pdf

(I had to right-click it and "save file")

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sensible idea from grant shapps but the way to do is by relaxing planning laws not relaxing mortgage lending for self builds as he suggests, as this will simply inflate land prices.

By relaxing planning laws price of land with planning permission will come down making it more affordable to build.

Oh but wait, Shappsie doesnt want prices to fall, he wanted "price stability" for the next 600 years until waged catch up.

+ 1

Planning will be key.

The article says:

"Local authorities will be forced to ease the planning and regulatory burdens, and encourage access to plots."

and

"Mr Shapps wants to ease the planning burden associated with self-builds"

But I will believe it only when i see it.

Besides, I am not sure "forcing" local authorities is the best way to go. I think bribing them would be much more effective.

For instance, just a draft idea here (open to suggestions):

Allow local authorities to:

1) Designate areas for development;

2) Forbid the use of that land for any other purpose - in effect forcing the owner to sell it to developers.

3) The sale has to be in a well publicised auction.

4) The size of each area cannot be so big that would allow only big national developers to compete for it.

5) The proceeds of the auction will be split 3 ways:

  1. compensate the land owner for the price of his land previous to the planning gain;

  2. 10% of the planning gain goes to the land owner, for any inconvenience;

  3. 90% of the planning gain goes to the local authority, to finance any costs this new development may create.

I guess this would greatly "stimulate" many local authorities, making them drop their current alliance with the b@stards NIMBYs' lobby in a second. :)

Thoughts?

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been trying to get planning consent on various plots for two years.Planners are obstructive and downright dishonest.My first attempt was encouraged but once the application went in the fees paid and plans drawn they discovered it was against policy.

I currently have a deal with a chap with an acre plot.He reduced his application from 5 to 4.Now they say they want it down to three. Persimmon have built 16 to the acre nearby.

That is just scandalous. I think you should go to the media, and grass them. They deserve it. And the "attention" will change their minds quite quickly. Shapps going to the media today gives you a good opportunity. Sky and other media that reported on Shapps may be interested in your case, as an example. But you should do it "while the iron is hot", preferably today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if a 4bed costs £150k to build (presumably including land), housebuilders must enjoy making losses in Northants.

bog standard 4bed detached newbuild £138k.

http://www.colyersgardens.co.uk/news/availability/

They were building the same things for £70k in 1996/7 (and making a profit). Given 50% wage inflation and 50% material inflation, a fair price would be £105k. Maybe £150k would be fair in somewhere 'nice' like St Albans. Although last time i was in st albans the roads were falling apart. Instead they'd probably want £500k in St Albans.

It looks like this house has only 102sqm.

If for self builders costs start from £700/sqm, I guess a developer could have similar costs, hence some £70k to build, and the rest is land and profits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(...) The irony is landowners are gagging to let go of land for "low" values. One near my folks place (about 10 miles outside Cambridge) was willing to sell land for 45 HA properties for £240k IIRC (ie not much more than £5k a plot)

These would have been good sized plots for semis with large front rear and side gardens. The council wanted to approve it before the NIMBYs got involved and put a stop to it.

(...)

Good post.

I reckon almost all landowners would be happy to sell an acre for £100k (ie 20 times its agricultural value) which might provide land for 10-12 small detached newbuilds.

(...)

+ 1

This post summarises our problems on the supply side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other cost which is big is connection to services. Services companies ask for far to much money for this

+ 1 !

Unfortunately I forgot the figures now, but I do remember my total shock when I heard how much they asked for a simple connection. And it as a simple, very short distance job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been trying to get planning consent on various plots for two years.Planners are obstructive and downright dishonest.My first attempt was encouraged but once the application went in the fees paid and plans drawn they discovered it was against policy.

I currently have a deal with a chap with an acre plot.He reduced his application from 5 to 4.Now they say they want it down to three. Persimmon have built 16 to the acre nearby.

This angers me.

The default answer always seems to be NO to the most benign and insignificant building or extension applications.

UNLESS it is to cram dozens of flats with no parking into an already overcrowded area, with the justification that there's a bus route/train station nearby so it's green. Either the developer has to be connected or big and lawyered up.

This nation is wonderfully free of corruption at "street level", with the glaring exception of local government planning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This angers me.

The default answer always seems to be NO to the most benign and insignificant building or extension applications.

UNLESS it is to cram dozens of flats with no parking into an already overcrowded area, with the justification that there's a bus route/train station nearby so it's green. Either the developer has to be connected or big and lawyered up.

This nation is wonderfully free of corruption at "street level", with the glaring exception of local government planning.

Yes, the behaviour of local authorities is actually inexplicable. We can try to understand it, like "NIMBY's pressure", but actually these little "officers" frequently go well beyond that. Perhaps it is just "little authorities" having a high from little power?? I really can't understand them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most depressing thing about those house specs (apart from their appearance) is that every bedroom is smaller than than those in our 150 year old farm labourer's cottage - considered the lowest of the low basic accommodation for the time.

But then again they've squeezed in 4 beds where there should be 3.

[edited after looking at floorplan]

Edited by hellsbells

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most depressing thing about those house specs (apart from their appearance) is that every bedroom is smaller than than those in our 150 year old farm labourer's cottage - considered the lowest of the low basic accommodation for the time.

But then again they've squeezed in 4 beds where there should be 3.

[edited after looking at floorplan]

Its been that way for the last 25 years though...so easier to compare.

I read an article on 1930s houses, back then in todays money average new house was £38k. When Letchworth GC was built in 1905-10 they focused on the £150 cottage (in todays money that equals about £13.5k!!!)

I dont quite expect a return to that (or, at the time, a loaf of bread costing half a days wages) but 1990s prices seem the best comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.