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Injin

Biggest Strike For 100 Years – Union Chief

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Gilts? You mean, the people who lent the government money to pay for all those comfy little public sector sinecures?

You do know the government offered these for sale, don't you? Be careful what you wish for - when no-one wants to buy them, the bricks of your public sector walled garden are going to be smashed to dust.

The UK banks are buying the gilts more now than ever before as there is far less demand for them, it looks like the public sector is now being paid for by the bankers

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you :lol:

Edited by robo1968

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But the public sector is so important that if they are away for even just a few days the country will be on its knees and Dave will have to give in.

I think the perception of the non-state employed people, thankfully still the majority here, is we the private sector have suffered, now it's their turn! If the government senses the mood is not sympathetic to teachers taking unpaid leave at the point of the GCSEs that their child has worked 10 years towards for a poxy few % on their pension that is already more than the public sector expect to get they will hold firm and let them strike. It might polarize the nation with a majority against the "public servants" allowing even more cuts and a better chance of labour looking bad for backing them.

The key indicator for me will be how strongly Labour state that they are standing "shoulder to shoulder" with the unions, if they come out very vocally then they feel there is a very good chance of them winning the PR battle, if they are a bit cagey then they are scared they will look bad because the public will be against the strikers. So far i've heard very little from Labour. IMO the public won't like being held to ransom by the ungrateful shits who have been doing very nicely thankyou for a long time.

Edited by athom

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The key indicator for me will be how strongly Labour state that they are standing "shoulder to shoulder" with the unions, if they come out very vocally then they feel there is a very good chance of them winning the PR battle, if they are a bit cagey then they are scared they will look bad because the public will be against the strikers. So far i've heard very little from Labour. IMO the public won't like being held to ransom by the ungrateful shits who have been doing very nicely thankyou for a long time.

This is an interesting point, in the original article the Unions mention support from Labour 5 times, yet nether have I heard much about Labour jumping to their defence.

If I was a teacher/potential striker I wouldn't be happy about this

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the state cannot afford the drop off in tax revenues that would occur with prolonged strike action.

Eh?

If they lose x in tax revenues because of strike action, then they must save x / 0,25 or 0,4 in salaries they dont have to pay.

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Eh?

If they lose x in tax revenues because of strike action, then they must save x / 0,25 or 0,4 in salaries they dont have to pay.

That might be true if the states income and outgoings even vaguely matched.

As it is, most of the tax payments go out in interest to prior borrowers, and this enables the state to pay for things by borrowing even more. They won't have to borrow as much to pay wages, but the debt is still there and needs constant feeding with tax money.

Worse, the interest rate on that debt will go up due to the instability of a general strike.

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If they lose x in tax revenues because of strike action, then they must save x / 0,25 or 0,4 in salaries they dont have to pay.

The state makes up about 50% of the British economy these days, so if the state employees are on strike that's a lot of economic activity that won't be happening; OK, the things the state actually do are mostly worthless, but they also pay a lot of private sector business for products and services, and if the strikes continue for long then those businesses will start to go bust. Which again wouldn't be that bad in the long term since they're just trough-seekers selling crap that no-one really needs, but would certainly reduce tax revenues.

Basically they're ******ed either way because if 50% of the economy shuts down then politicians tend to get strung up from lamp-posts, but if they keep shovelling more and more money from the private sector to the public sector then the economy will collapse anyway.

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The state makes up about 50% of the British economy these days, so if the state employees are on strike that's a lot of economic activity that won't be happening; OK, the things the state actually do are mostly worthless, but they also pay a lot of private sector business for products and services, and if the strikes continue for long then those businesses will start to go bust. Which again wouldn't be that bad in the long term since they're just trough-seekers selling crap that no-one really needs, but would certainly reduce tax revenues.

Basically they're ******ed either way because if 50% of the economy shuts down then politicians tend to get strung up from lamp-posts, but if they keep shovelling more and more money from the private sector to the public sector then the economy will collapse anyway.

Exactly.

It's important to note that printing even more money and shunting at the awkward squad to get them to bugger off for a bit means the economy has a chance of eviscarating itself on someone elses watch, which is why policians will pick the printing press every single time.

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This is an interesting point, in the original article the Unions mention support from Labour 5 times, yet nether have I heard much about Labour jumping to their defence.

If I was a teacher/potential striker I wouldn't be happy about this

Same here i've only heard the union leaders mentioning they expect Labours support. Not surprising when they dictated that Ed would be leader. Of course Ed will have to make some noises vaguely in support of workers rights to fairness blah blah. But will we see him giving rousing speeches at the picket lines? Starting to doubt it.

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Same here i've only heard the union leaders mentioning they expect Labours support. Not surprising when they dictated that Ed would be leader. Of course Ed will have to make some noises vaguely in support of workers rights to fairness blah blah. But will we see him giving rousing speeches at the picket lines? Starting to doubt it.

Think Ed would have done it by now if he was going to do.

Not a good start, the Gov't will win this, I think even the strikers know this

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Guest sillybear2

:lol::lol::lol:

The council clear gypsies?

Please stop! :lol::lol::lol:

Is that like a special species of Japanese knotweed that nicks the lead off your roof?

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:lol::lol::lol:

The council clear gypsies?

Please stop! :lol::lol::lol:

According to Injin they do

The council must have had better things to do the day it happened to me

Never mind the police not giving a toss when I had the scum catapulting stones at our stuff.

Edited by robo1968

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The key indicator for me will be how strongly Labour state that they are standing "shoulder to shoulder" with the unions, if they come out very vocally then they feel there is a very good chance of them winning the PR battle, if they are a bit cagey then they are scared they will look bad because the public will be against the strikers. So far i've heard very little from Labour. IMO the public won't like being held to ransom by the ungrateful shits who have been doing very nicely thankyou for a long time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13824173

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls urged the unions not to fall into the government's "trap" by going on strike.

Writing in the Sunday Mirror, he said Chancellor George Osborne wanted to provoke them into taking industrial action so he could blame them for the "flat-lining" economy.

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:lol::lol::lol:

That's an endorsement if I've never seen one

I bet the unions are s''ting themselves.

"We're not going to respond kindly to threats. I am talking about dignity in retirement after years and years of public service, doing difficult and complex jobs.

"We're not asking for anything that is unreasonable, we're asking for dignity."

F**k everyone else who has to shoulder the debt then, like the rest of the UK doesn't work hard... ridiculous

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Guest sillybear2

Look at the implicit logic behind this statement :-

Dr Mary Boustead, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: "What we are afraid of is it will make our pensions so unattractive and so unaffordable that it will
push public servants, particularly teachers, nurses and social workers, into pension poverty and living off the state
.

Not nice, but that's ok for everyone else then? Again nobody gives two shits about those without this special provision, I guess those people simply exist to pay the bills for their members. Unless they start advocating a dignified retirement for all workers across society they will simply come across as a bunch of selfish self-interested shits.

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Thank f**k for that - I saw the news earlier briefly and read it as "massive onion strikes!" - now I know it's a load of lefty sandle wearing bearded fruit juice drinkers having an eppy and throwing the toys out of the pram I feel a lot safer! The terrifying reality of what I thought this might have been has been averted for another time. Though I'm still paying all tear inducing vegetables a cautionary respectful bow before slicing them for the next few days at least.

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Look at the implicit logic behind this statement :-

Dr Mary Boustead, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: "What we are afraid of is it will make our pensions so unattractive and so unaffordable that it will
push public servants, particularly teachers, nurses and social workers, into pension poverty and living off the state
.

Not nice, but that's ok for everyone else then? Again nobody gives two shits about those without this special provision, I guess those people simply exist to pay the bills for their members. Unless they start advocating a dignified retirement for all workers across society they will simply come across as a bunch of selfish self-interested shits.

Right so when private sector pensions were being raped the public sector should have agitated and now public sectors are being hammered they should look at the big picture? Get ******ed.

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Guest sillybear2

Right so when private sector pensions were being raped the public sector should have agitated and now public sectors are being hammered they should look at the big picture? Get ******ed.

Public sector unions were completely indifferent to this race to the bottom, they even acquiesced with a two-tier workforce within their own organisations so long as it didn't impact their own precious rights. Now the same forces are visiting them they somehow expect wider public sympathy, what if they only get equal indifference in return? I'm not saying that's fair, but there doesn't seem to be much solidarity about.

The wider point I'm making is about the state pension rather than a narrow point about public v. private. Whatever happened to Beveridge's concept of a fair, dignified, contribution based system for all? Anyone that misses this broader point and fails to articulate it to the wider public just comes across as a grasping special interest group, even Balls realises this because he knows there's not enough votes in captive producer interests.

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To be fair the unions have to come out of their corner fighting. That is what their members have been paying for them to do for years. And they could hardly say we will do 2 days strike action before giving up. You have to give the impression you are going to win.

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From public or general wasteland, yes they umm and aaah.

From "your" front lawn, they'll be on it right away.

But which is better? Societal collaspe lawn enforcement..

I.e. my hypoethetical house would be armed to the teeth with 50 cal machine guns automatic grenade launchers and multiple 7.62mm minigun turrets. On any form of trespass they would survive about 2 seconds while the turrets locked on and turned them into purple mush...

Or I can phone the council who will probably arrest ME because it is more profitable to arrest that person with assets make up stuff in a court of law and steal my stuff.

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Look at the implicit logic behind this statement :-

Dr Mary Boustead, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: "What we are afraid of is it will make our pensions so unattractive and so unaffordable that it will
push public servants, particularly teachers, nurses and social workers, into
pension poverty
and living off the state
.

Not nice, but that's ok for everyone else then? Again nobody gives two shits about those without this special provision, I guess those people simply exist to pay the bills for their members. Unless they start advocating a dignified retirement for all workers across society they will simply come across as a bunch of selfish self-interested shits.

is pension poverty not being able to go on cruises when you're 62?

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But but but they should be allowed to retire at 50 with a 6 figure lump sum and a nice 2k a month pension like the fireman I recently learned of, nice work if you can get it

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I am not sure the unions are really looking for sympathy from the wider public. Perhaps we are just at the anger stage. Lots of posters on here are constantly calling for the public to march on parliament pitchforks in hand, but as soon as a strike is called it's bash the public sector worker time. Perhaps it is that the government are breaching a contract and the 'workers' are withdrawing from their part of the contract for one or two days- it doesn't really matter in the big picture of things.

Incidentally, how much are the changes (if the government is successful) going to save?

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Guest sillybear2

is pension poverty not being able to go on cruises when you're 62?

Well, if the pickets and the statistics start flying it ain't gonna look good in some cases, fancy a flutter on the outcome? The nice thing about averages is the fact they can be anything you want them to be, first you remove the high flyers, then you pack in the part timer workers and all those people who left their employ after 6 months and it brings it down nicely. However, private provision is now so pathetic that even those rigged numbers start to look generous to everyone but Fred the [redacted] Shred :lol:

It's a bit of a sad state of affairs really. Thanks to austerity, in Greece 70% of pensioners are now living on €700 a month, which is about 40% more generous than the British basic state pension, and we're talking about a country that is meant to be proper knackered... Greece that is.

To be honest why not just offer them what they want, including free Woolworths gift vouchers, Green Shield Stamps and Greek government bonds? When it comes to the time to redeem them it won't be your problem.

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Right so when private sector pensions were being raped the public sector should have agitated and now public sectors are being hammered they should look at the big picture? Get ******ed.

Hammered? You mean by having to work to the same age as everyone else and contributing fairly to their pension scheme?

Looking at the big picture I don't recall the public sector having to pay for the private sector or its shortfall when it got raped.

As for getting ****Ed I think I'll pass

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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