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AteMoose

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We are currently recruiting but there is a severe lack of .NET developers... Talking to fellow managers/developers I'm told the starting salary for a junior silverlight dev in London is around 45k a team leader/more experienced dev is now at about 75k in the city... Which is making is REALLY difficult to recruit across the country, far too many companies are looking for developers, at a recent conference everyone you talked to were looking for developers.

Is this the wage spiral?

Why havent I moved to london/negotiated a better salary?

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We are currently recruiting but there is a severe lack of .NET developers... Talking to fellow managers/developers I'm told the starting salary for a junior silverlight dev in London is around 45k a team leader/more experienced dev is now at about 75k in the city... Which is making is REALLY difficult to recruit across the country, far too many companies are looking for developers, at a recent conference everyone you talked to were looking for developers.

Is this the wage spiral?

Why havent I moved to london/negotiated a better salary?

That's interesting and quite surprising. I had thought that .Net was quite popular through sucking up the remaining C++, VB and Delphi devs who were looking to change but hadn't moved onto the likes of Java. Maybe the rise of mobile/tablet development is to blame?

I've been looking to change to another language as Delphi is dead in the water, but I'd been umming and ahhing over what to go to. Looks like it's another +1 for C# :D

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Where I work we have used to have one VB developer who was in post for years.

After he left 2 years ago we hired a .Net programmer, since then the headcount has steadily increased to 5 .Net programmers.

I'm not a programmer but my impression is that it's not the most productive programming tool. Programming fads seem to go through boom and bust periods - remember when everyone wanted to hire java programmers, what happened to that?

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Theres 100s of people out there, god knows we've interviewed them, but we're still struggling to find people of the required calibre.

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Theres 100s of people out there, god knows we've interviewed them, but we're still struggling to find people of the required calibre.

the vast majority of programmers are such unutterable sh*t that most of the good ones are forced to leave to avoid dying of boredom

there is something about working in commercial IT development that makes you want to die quite soon, from experience

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Theres 100s of people out there, god knows we've interviewed them, but we're still struggling to find people of the required calibre.

Perhaps your budget per developer is too small?

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starting salary for a junior silverlight dev in London is around 45k

They need the money to make up for it being a dead end technology!

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Starting salaries for compSci grads where I am (not london) is 20-30K, nearer 30 than 20. Similar in chips.

Terrible difficulty recruiting the right people just now, both here and abroad. India is the worst, terribly hard to get and retain the right people.

The optimist in me thinks that this is the start of a glorious age in which real human capital is going to be highly priced relative to the lower end, and relative to fake human capital.

I think we had to achieve peak debt to get this outcome, because prior to peak debt there is much more money in bidding up asset prices than doing actual work.

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They need the money to make up for it being a dead end technology!

Quite right. I am a senior software engineer and I use c++ and PHP extensively (for totally different purposes).

Not being funny but most serious Nerds/geeks whatever you like to call us are open source, Linux and Android people who do not want to get caught up in all of the Microsoft and Apple BS.

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Quite right. I am a senior software engineer and I use c++ and PHP extensively (for totally different purposes).

Not being funny but most serious Nerds/geeks whatever you like to call us are open source, Linux and Android people who do not want to get caught up in all of the Microsoft and Apple BS.

what about sysanal areas - that has to be tied (by definition) to a proprietary scaleable DB platform ..?

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Ok. What makes you say that?

Indeed, f# its functional language which is will scale well across massively cored machines

They need the money to make up for it being a dead end technology!

The banks love silverlight, they get nice flashy graphics and displays and you can run it out of the browser

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Theres 100s of people out there, god knows we've interviewed them, but we're still struggling to find people of the required calibre.

Exactly the same problem, we were very lucky with out last dev.....

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Quite right. I am a senior software engineer and I use c++ and PHP extensively (for totally different purposes).

Not being funny but most serious Nerds/geeks whatever you like to call us are open source, Linux and Android people who do not want to get caught up in all of the Microsoft and Apple BS.

That is balls. 50% of the developers in the UK say that they are primarily MS developers and of those the vast majority target the managed languages. There are just as many geeks/nerds in this camp as there are in the linux/opens source etc world.

A lot of geeks might LIKE open source, Linux and Android but in most instances the geeks themselves do not choose the platforms they target - the geeks bosses do. Thus if the geeks have no .NET skills they will not get a job.

The interesting thing is that Java seems to be slowly dying. It has lost its 'cool' factor and there seems to be a consensus that there has been a lack of investment in the technology over the last few years. I think that this is meaning that more new projects are choosing the .NET option, hence the demand for skills. I am living over in Aus at the moment and that is certainly the case here. There is a massive demand for .NET developers.

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The interesting thing is that Java seems to be slowly dying. It has lost its 'cool' factor and there seems to be a consensus that there has been a lack of investment in the technology over the last few years. I think that this is meaning that more new projects are choosing the .NET option, hence the demand for skills. I am living over in Aus at the moment and that is certainly the case here. There is a massive demand for .NET developers.

Java is an interesting one, the Android platform is essentially a Java Platform, all the apps are java which seems to be waking the language up a bit... Interesting .NET is in 'massive demand' in Oz, what are the dev salaries over there like?

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Silverlight? I looked at learning it, but what proportion of browsers have it installed? Why not Flash/Flex?

I don't know whether I could go back to being a code monkey in a team.

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Would be suspicious of anyone saying that a good Java developer couldn't pick up C# very quickly indeed.

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Where I work we have used to have one VB developer who was in post for years.

After he left 2 years ago we hired a .Net programmer, since then the headcount has steadily increased to 5 .Net programmers.

I'm not a programmer but my impression is that it's not the most productive programming tool. Programming fads seem to go through boom and bust periods - remember when everyone wanted to hire java programmers, what happened to that?

It can be productive but you really need to run a code generator to do the leg work for you. Something Visual Studio by itself is time consuming Visual Studio plus CodeSmith or similar is a fast development platform.

Of course the move to Test Driven Development hardly helps on the development speed front but supposedly it does improve the quality of code. Shame about the quality of analysis prior to starting development.

As for the 5 developers 1 good developer is worth 10 crap ones. Its remarkable how little work I actually do currently and I'm still faster than the others in the office.

the vast majority of programmers are such unutterable sh*t that most of the good ones are forced to leave to avoid dying of boredom

there is something about working in commercial IT development that makes you want to die quite soon, from experience

I've not had that problem for a while. I'm bored and job hunting but that's only because my current place isn't interested in doing new stuff and I'm now far more interested in architecture and real problem solving rather than coding.

On the contract side of things the market seems to be rapidly going from £250 a day to £350 or so for anyone decent. Trying to find a decent Architect role is however proving rather difficult so if anyone is hunting PM me.

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I dabble in a bit of web dev and am now looking at html5 solely, rather than ****** about with flash etc, as html5 will shortly be available in all browsers, cross-platform, no plug-in hassle, am i barking up wrong tree or not?

Anyways the best quote I ever heard about the whole "my pet technology is better than your pet technology" argument was a curt "all fan boys are virgins". And it's true.

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We are currently recruiting but there is a severe lack of .NET developers... Talking to fellow managers/developers I'm told the starting salary for a junior silverlight dev in London is around 45k a team leader/more experienced dev is now at about 75k in the city... Which is making is REALLY difficult to recruit across the country, far too many companies are looking for developers, at a recent conference everyone you talked to were looking for developers.
hhmmm silverlight, how to make things look nice but waste huge amounts of time.
Where I work we have used to have one VB developer who was in post for years. After he left 2 years ago we hired a .Net programmer, since then the headcount has steadily increased to 5 .Net programmers.
Is this perhaps because you are able to produce more systems? Or maybe it's because .net technologies make it easy for anyone to "write" software, resulting in lots of people who don't know what they are doing getting jobs doing it.
I'm not a programmer but my impression is that it's not the most productive programming tool. Programming fads seem to go through boom and bust periods - remember when everyone wanted to hire java programmers, what happened to that?
Java is a great language, as a technical exercise. not too good though for business apps, which is what VB/VB.net is good for.
the vast majority of programmers are such unutterable sh*t that most of the good ones are forced to leave to avoid dying of boredom
You're confusing programmers with people who went to uni and tried to learn to program. Real programmers will usually have been writing software since childhood. They tend to be the ducks legs... no-one notices them as they work away under the surface keeping everything running while the project managers take all the credit.
Perhaps your budget per developer is too small?
What! You mean we wont work for so little money that we have to share a house with 6 people? What a crime.
The banks love silverlight, they get nice flashy graphics and displays and you can run it out of the browser
But of course you need silverlight installed! microsoft looked at all the flash apps and decided they wanted a piece of the pie. just like flash apps, silverlight is great for little games, but useless for developing major business apps.
That is balls. 50% of the developers in the UK say that they are primarily MS developers and of those the vast majority target the managed languages. There are just as many geeks/nerds in this camp as there are in the linux/opens source etc world.
Sadly most of those are nerds not geeks, and as such don't know what they are doing.
The interesting thing is that Java seems to be slowly dying. It has lost its 'cool' factor and there seems to be a consensus that there has been a lack of investment in the technology over the last few years. I think that this is meaning that more new projects are choosing the .NET option.
What business needs it dev tools that allow software to be written in very short timescales. Java doesn't give you that. With VB.net you drag and drop to build apps, use wizards to select data... complete apps can be up and running in minutes.

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All software platforms, languages and software suites have a limited lifespan. A developer has to continually learn about new programming environments. Fun when you're young, but after a while it loses it's gloss.

So why not train someone for the job?

Or, like so many businesses, does yours expect someone to bring skills to the post, skills that have a finite lifespan, but object to training them and object to paying what they can command elsewhere? What reason do you think these skills are in short supply?

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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