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The Masked Tulip

Greek State Starting To Lose Grip On Functions Of State

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It seems to have had problems since the Spartan's took Athens.

The real mystery of course, is why anyone let them any money.

Because [Greek] property prices only ever go up? Seems to be the sole reason why anyone lent any money to anyone in the 2000s.

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Its always failed to have any function of state.... it struggles to take taxes, and it struggles to do stuff like fix the drains and the water system (no toilet paper down the drains, cleaning your teeth with bottle water), and a love of high/hyperinflation right until they bodged the numbers and joined the euro...

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It seems to have had problems since the Spartan's took Athens.

The real mystery of course, is why anyone let them any money.

I think that the Athenians are once again looking forward to a very Spartan existence.

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It seems to have had problems since the Spartan's took Athens.

The real mystery of course, is why anyone let them any money.

So they could default due to the inherent unpayability and therefore seize actual assets?

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The game has changed. Greeks now see this as an issue of sovereignty and nationhood, and the middle has woken up.

Remember just how many of Europe's "moments of shift" have originated in the Balkans in the last 100 years -- even down to tides like Islamist extremism and "liberal intervention".

I think it might be an idea to hold onto our hats.

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The game has changed. Greeks now see this as an issue of sovereignty and nationhood, and the middle has woken up.

Time to test that theory that the market trumps the nation state.

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Part of me would really like to be there.

It would be magnificent/totally scary to actually see a populace rising up to stand up for itself (whether you believe in their motivation or not).

Can you really imagine that happening in the UK these days? People seem to be unquestionably and happily walking towards financial serfdom.

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Can you really imagine that happening in the UK these days?

Ruled out the unnecessary part of that sentence.. ;)

This is Britain. We don't do revolts. Unless it's inciting one or two abroad. What ho.

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Part of me would really like to be there.

Like me, in a completely invisible impregnable military vehicle - fitted with all-mods cons?

It would be magnificent/totally scary to actually see a populace rising up to stand up for itself (whether you believe in their motivation or not).

Can you really imagine that happening in the UK these days? People seem to be unquestionably and happily walking towards financial serfdom.

Well - I remember the 80s (as a child) and some of the things that went on then were pretty scary - for example, I have vivid recollections of a man being killed when a concrete block was dropped on his car from a motorway bridge (near where I lived) after he'd insisted on crossing picket lines.

If you're looking to find real conflict, you need to find two roughly evenly matched 'sides'. In the 70s/80s, in Britain, it was the unionised versus the free market capitalists... and that was potent as people could be separated between the two camps fairly easily... and both felt passionately that only they had the answer. I've wondered a lot, in recent years, where the next battle-lines will be drawn... I've not seen any clear clues - but suspect that the impending public sector strikes are relevant. There's a definite resonance between steady reliable long-term income... which correlates more strongly with the public than private sector... and a high-debt-low-interest environment.

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Actually we do them them very well, just not very often.

a revolt

another revolt

and another one

None of those three were popularist revolts. Indeed the closest we've come to proper revolution-by-the-people is the Peasants Revolt (failed, and in any case at the time the peasants could in no way form an alternative government) and then more recently the Chartists in the 19th century, but that was largely peaceful.

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Part of me would really like to be there.

It would be magnificent/totally scary to actually see a populace rising up to stand up for itself (whether you believe in their motivation or not).

Can you really imagine that happening in the UK these days? People seem to be unquestionably and happily walking towards financial serfdom.

OK. Let's just pretend that it did happen. Not just in the UK, but all over Europe. Big time. What do you think would happen afterwards? Presuming we can't just riot forever, what would the outcome be? What would make it stop, and what would have changed afterwards?

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None of those three were popularist revolts. Indeed the closest we've come to proper revolution-by-the-people is the Peasants Revolt (failed, and in any case at the time the peasants could in no way form an alternative government) and then more recently the Chartists in the 19th century, but that was largely peaceful.

Revolution doesn't have to be violent, and neither does it have to be "popularist" (if by that you mean proletarian based). The middle classes have most of the talent and resources required anyway.

Remember Marx wasn't exactly a horny handed man of the people.

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None of those three were popularist revolts. Indeed the closest we've come to proper revolution-by-the-people is the Peasants Revolt (failed, and in any case at the time the peasants could in no way form an alternative government) and then more recently the Chartists in the 19th century, but that was largely peaceful.

Well the English Civil war involved more of the population and it is reckoned a greater percentage died than in World War 1.

Amongst its results were

  1. The King was put on trial, convicted of waging war on his own people and had his head cut off in 1649

  2. The Monarchy, the established Church and the the House of Lords were abolished

  3. England became a Republic (albeit temporarily)

  4. It helped produce ideas that inspired both the American and French Revolutions

How revolutionary does it have to get for you ?

.

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Well the English Civil war involved more of the population and it is reckoned a greater percentage died than in World War 1.

Amongst its results were

  1. The King was put on trial, convicted of waging war on his own people and had his head cut off in 1649

  2. The Monarchy, the established Church and the the House of Lords were abolished

  3. England became a Republic (albeit temporarily)

  4. It helped produce ideas that inspired both the American and French Revolutions

How revolutionary does it have to get for you ?

.

We are talking about revolts by the people, not revolutions and wars of the political elite. And you can add to your list the establishment of theocratic tyranny, the butchering of the Irish and eventual anarchy.

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We are talking about revolts by the people, not revolutions and wars of the political elite. And you can add to your list the establishment of theocratic tyranny, the butchering of the Irish and eventual anarchy.

You have too narrow a viewpoint.

It is also arguable whether there has ever been a genuine "peoples" revolution. Things typically start to kick off when those who have something to lose, begin losing it.

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There's a definite resonance between steady reliable long-term income... which correlates more strongly with the public than private sector... and a high-debt-low-interest environment.

Good post, can you expand on the above a bit?

As for the Mason article, a rare piece of excellent journalism.

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Ruled out the unnecessary part of that sentence.. ;)

This is Britain. We don't do revolts. Unless it's inciting one or two abroad. What ho.

As the brilliant George MacDonald Fraser commented in Royal Flash - "while the continent was falling apart , old England went her way without revolutions or disturbances beyond a few workers agitations . We like to think we are above that sort of thing of course ; the Englishman , however miserably off he is , supposes that he's a free man , poor fool , and pities the unhappy foreigners raging against their rulers . And HIS rulers , of course , trade on that feeling , and keep him underfoot while assuring him that Britons never shall be slaves" :rolleyes:

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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