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http://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/1032830.article?cmpid=MSE01&cmptype=newsletter&email=true

John Gummer, the former Conservative MP of Suffolk Coastal and the chairman of the Association of Mortgage Intermediaries has claimed non-homeowners have no freedom.

Speaking at the AMI annual dinner last night he said home ownership has been one of the main strengths of Britain.

He told the audience: “Home ownership is the basis of freedom, people who do not own their own home do not have independence.”

snip

He adds: “Home ownership gives people who otherwise would not have a stake in society a real stake, it is the basis for any properly democratic system, it’s because people own something that matters that they are able to proceed.”

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So I'm less free due to being able to move wherever I want if I spot an opportunity I want to take with far less hassle than a homerenteroffthebank? It's still early in the morning by my standards but I can't quite work that out.

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Whether or not you own a house, rent something, or have a mortgage has no impact on the degree of freedom you [don't] have.

Exactly, Gummers comments are just a logical fallacy, a variation of the Questionable Cause Fallacy. I also scent a whiff of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy to in the "properly democratic system" :P - this could still all just be summed up as utter B*****T for brevity!

Edited by JustAnotherProle

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As a renter you are not free in the sense that your future is determined by the whim of the landlord. Owning your own home does give you a sense of freedom.

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As a renter you are not free in the sense that your future is determined by the whim of the landlord. Owning your own home does give you a sense of freedom.

No, it gives you a sense of stability. That is not the same as freedom.

Edited by DungBeetle

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http://www.mortgages...tter&email=true

John Gummer, the former Conservative MP of Suffolk Coastal and the chairman of the Association of Mortgage Intermediaries has claimed non-homeowners have no freedom.

Tory VI debt pusher talks his book shokka.

(Nice irony that in his role as debt peddler he's talking about home 'ownership' :lol:)

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No, it gives you a sense of stability. That is not the same as freedom.

As a renter I did not feel free in the sense that I could not do what I wanted with the house, could not keep pets, could not properly plan for the future. All very restrictive.

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As a renter I did not feel free in the sense that I could not do what I wanted with the house, could not keep pets, could not properly plan for the future. All very restrictive.

The kind of freedom I'm talking about is not having a massive debt to pay, with interest, for the next 25-30 years. Wallpaper or whether you can keep a cat is not an issue for me. Who cares as you will save more money without redecorating and buying pet food. :0

Edited by Wait & See

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Buying a property outright might give you freedom. Having a massive mortgage is not what I would call freedom though. :rolleyes:

Not if you lose more in bank interest on the money you draw out of the bank to buy it with than you currently pay out in rent.

Freedom is not being in debt. You don't have to tie up your cash in an illiquid, depreciating, asset to be free ;).

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Freedom is the flexibility to opt out of a particular state, as quickly and cheaply as possible, if it fails.

The closer a state gets to failure, the more freedom one gains from renting rather than "owning" one's shelter.

Everyone has their own view about how close we are to state failure and whether maintaining freedom by renting has much value at the moment versus the relative security of tenancy that "owning" provides.

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As a renter I did not feel free in the sense that I could not do what I wanted with the house, could not keep pets, could not properly plan for the future. All very restrictive.

Why did you think that you weren't allowed to redecorate or keep pets?

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Not if you lose more in bank interest on the money you draw out of the bank to buy it with than you currently pay out in rent.

Freedom is not being in debt. You don't have to tie up your cash in an illiquid, depreciating, asset to be free ;).

You cannot live your life with that ethos and be happy. Otherwise you would never purchase anything. Sometimes decisions in life can be financially detrimental and yet can enhance your quality of life. Financially it would make more sense to stay at home on a Friday night and eat beans on toast (bought from Lidl) and a can of Asda SmartPrice lager. However, going out for a nice meal and drink in a busy bar would be far more pleasurable and make life worth living.

I can imagine if you have a partner who does not buy into your ethos it would be a very difficult sell to know that being pushed from pillar to post by landlords was actually better than buying that cottage you liked because your spreadsheet tells you that you are £637.54 a year better off.

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Why did you think that you weren't allowed to redecorate or keep pets?

I actually did both but stopped short of putting a new kitchen in or any DIY work as the day after we could get notice to quit from the landlord.

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Why did you think that you weren't allowed to redecorate or keep pets?

It explicitly says 'no pets' in my contract. In the past I have also had contracts that prohibited the use of candles or guests staying more than 3 nights. "Sorry Mum, sling yer 'ook, landlord wants you out today!"

I know that unfair terms may not stand up in court, but they do give the landlord handy excuses to make trouble and are somewhat humiliating.

Edit: Another favourite of mine is prohibiting you from operating a business from the premises. Sorry Zuckerberg wannabes, startups are for "homeowners" only!

Edited by Dorkins

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As a renter you are not free in the sense that your future is determined by the whim of the landlord. Owning your own home does give you a sense of freedom.

a 'sense of freedom' is not the same as 'freedom'.

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It explicitly says 'no pets' in my contract. In the past I have also had contracts that prohibited the use of candles or guests staying more than 3 nights. "Sorry Mum, sling yer 'ook, landlord wants you out today!"

I know that unfair terms may not stand up in court, but they do give the landlord handy excuses to make trouble and are somewhat humiliating.

Edit: Another favourite of mine is prohibiting you from operating a business from the premises. Sorry Zuckerberg wannabes, startups are for "homeowners" only!

On that last one, there were covenants in the last 2 places we "owned", saying exactly the same thing. Not just renters who are restricted in that regard.

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I didn't feel very free when the semi next to mine got infested with immigrants thanks to the Scumlord who owned it having no scruples whatsoever. 7 people in a 2-bed semi was apparently OK too according to the council, no HMO issues here. Likewise the Police were not interested when my misses was being threatened, nor when I got punched up and down the front lawn by two of them after complaining about noise. Even after selling the fukcer I was constantly haunted by the fear of being sued by the new owners for not declaring the neighbour issue. Fortunately the immigrants shoved off about 4 months after exchange.

I feel a lot more free now in my rented place, being in a detached helps too. Owning a house can end up being a prison sentence if you get bad neighbours or end up in negative equity. No thanks, not until prices come down to reasonable levels and I can afford a place with plenty of space around it, space to breath and not be annoyed by idiots.

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You cannot live your life with that ethos and be happy. Otherwise you would never purchase anything. Sometimes decisions in life can be financially detrimental and yet can enhance your quality of life. Financially it would make more sense to stay at home on a Friday night and eat beans on toast (bought from Lidl) and a can of Asda SmartPrice lager. However, going out for a nice meal and drink in a busy bar would be far more pleasurable and make life worth living.

I can imagine if you have a partner who does not buy into your ethos it would be a very difficult sell to know that being pushed from pillar to post by landlords was actually better than buying that cottage you liked because your spreadsheet tells you that you are £637.54 a year better off.

If you read Bruce's posts you'll probably find that he is an order or three a year better off, affording him any number of nice dinners. I am also renting with plenty of disposable so I know how it feels like (life's wonderful atm).

When you lack capital, you lack freedom, such is thy system we live in, rent or mortgaged or neither.

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http://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/1032830.article?cmpid=MSE01&cmptype=newsletter&email=true

John Gummer, the former Conservative MP of Suffolk Coastal and the chairman of the Association of Mortgage Intermediaries has claimed non-homeowners have no freedom.

Speaking at the AMI annual dinner last night he said home ownership has been one of the main strengths of Britain.

He told the audience: “Home ownership is the basis of freedom, people who do not own their own home do not have independence.”

snip

He adds: “Home ownership gives people who otherwise would not have a stake in society a real stake, it is the basis for any properly democratic system, it’s because people own something that matters that they are able to proceed.”

Just to check my freedom, I'll try withholding my council tax.

If I am free, surely there will be no problem with that.

??

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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