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the flying pig

Tragic Sign Of The Times - Document Certification Required For Ns&i

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So you have to send in a photocopy of your passport and suchlike.

The copies need to be certified by an "acceptable certifier". There's a list of acceptable people including actuary, medical doctor, lawyer, accountat, and so on. I guess the idea is that these types are somehow responsible and/or intelligent.

Tucked away somewhere in the list it inexplicably says "estate agent" :angry: .

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts: after all, the NS&I fixed-rate bonds offer significantly better rates than any private sector banks will, and thus are effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer.

However, asking for this level of proof says to me that the government does not believe that having an NI number is reliable enough proof of identity/eligibility. This says to me that either the private banks' checks are too lax, or that the NI number system is broken.

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts: after all, the NS&I fixed-rate bonds offer significantly better rates than any private sector banks will, and thus are effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer.

However, asking for this level of proof says to me that the government does not believe that having an NI number is reliable enough proof of identity/eligibility. This says to me that either the private banks' checks are too lax, or that the NI number system is broken.

I think the OP was referring to how Estate Agents are "acceptable certifiers"!!!!

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The copies need to be certified by an "acceptable certifier". There's a list of acceptable people including actuary, medical doctor, lawyer, accountat, and so on. I guess the idea is that these types are somehow responsible and/or intelligent.

I find the idea that you can predict a person's honesty and reliability from their job title totally hilarious. Was MP on that list by any chance?

Real crooks wear suits.

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So you have to send in a photocopy of your passport and suchlike.

The copies need to be certified by an "acceptable certifier". There's a list of acceptable people including actuary, medical doctor, lawyer, accountat, and so on. I guess the idea is that these types are somehow responsible and/or intelligent.

Tucked away somewhere in the list it inexplicably says "estate agent" :angry: .

Well if they were criminal they'd be thrown off the list. But also isn't part of the idea just that they are a registered professional, so the passport authorities can consult the register and make sure they are a real person - and/or track them down and question/arrest if the person has been falsely certified?

Estate Agents are not necessarily more trustworthy - just not criminals and more easily traceable.

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts: after all, the NS&I fixed-rate bonds offer significantly better rates than any private sector banks will, and thus are effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer.

However, asking for this level of proof says to me that the government does not believe that having an NI number is reliable enough proof of identity/eligibility. This says to me that either the private banks' checks are too lax, or that the NI number system is broken.

I think it probably is.

It seems to need to be suplemented by a unique tax reference or whatever they call it. I suspect that this is because NI numbers are given out freely to enable illegal immigrants to work, and are no longer of any real use.

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I find the idea that you can predict a person's honesty and reliability from their job title totally hilarious. Was MP on that list by any chance?

Real crooks wear suits.

You obviously can't judge every book by its cover, but surely on average qualified teachers, doctors, lawyers etc are ON AVERAGE more trustworthy than say a market stall Del Boy??

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts: after all, the NS&I fixed-rate bonds offer significantly better rates than any private sector banks will, and thus are effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer.

However, asking for this level of proof says to me that the government does not believe that having an NI number is reliable enough proof of identity/eligibility. This says to me that either the private banks' checks are too lax, or that the NI number system is broken.

Unfortunately the NI system is hopeless for identifying illegals. We end up having to check passport no.s to verify staff's eligibility to work.

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It's just the money launder checks.

Given money laundering often uses property purchases, dodgy estate agents would need to be involved. So asking them to sign it is a joke.

Anyway, the signature bit is no longer important. Don't even know why it's still on the form. Probably beaurocratic oversight.

Donald Duck could sign it and they wouldn't be any the wiser.

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You obviously can't judge every book by its cover, but surely on average qualified teachers, doctors, lawyers etc are ON AVERAGE more trustworthy than say a market stall Del Boy??

Since you have absolutely zero evidence to back up that assertion, it's nothing but empty prejudice. There are liars and sociopaths in all walks of life, and probably in roughly equal numbers.

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Since you have absolutely zero evidence to back up that assertion, it's nothing but empty prejudice. There are liars and sociopaths in all walks of life, and probably in roughly equal numbers.

I don't think that's very fair to bankers ;)

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So you have to send in a photocopy of your passport and suchlike.

The copies need to be certified by an "acceptable certifier". There's a list of acceptable people including actuary, medical doctor, lawyer, accountat, and so on. I guess the idea is that these types are somehow responsible and/or intelligent.

Tucked away somewhere in the list it inexplicably says "estate agent" :angry: .

The reason is that these professions have an a legally mandated, independent professional registration body, that supervises the professional behaviour of these professionals. As a result, it is trivially easy to check that the 'checker' is who they say they are. The professional bodies also have the power to ban someone from working in those professions if they feel that their behaviour is inappropriate; the implication is that these people are more trustworthy than others, because they have more to lose.

E.g. if a lawyer is caught helping money launderers hide money, then the law society will be quite happy to make sure they never work as a lawyer in this country again.

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Since you have absolutely zero evidence to back up that assertion, it's nothing but empty prejudice. There are liars and sociopaths in all walks of life, and probably in roughly equal numbers.

Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion?!

It's surely not empty prejudice to suggest that heavily-regulated professions such as law, medicine and teaching have a lower proportion of liars and sociopaths than unregulated professions?

At the very least, you need to be CRB checked to be a teacher, and not convicted of fraud to be a lawyer, so that must weed out some of the less trustworthy?

The reason is that these professions have an a legally mandated, independent professional registration body, that supervises the professional behaviour of these professionals. As a result, it is trivially easy to check that the 'checker' is who they say they are. The professional bodies also have the power to ban someone from working in those professions if they feel that their behaviour is inappropriate; the implication is that these people are more trustworthy than others, because they have more to lose.

E.g. if a lawyer is caught helping money launderers hide money, then the law society will be quite happy to make sure they never work as a lawyer in this country again.

+1

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts: after all, the NS&I fixed-rate bonds offer significantly better rates than any private sector banks will, and thus are effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer.

However, asking for this level of proof says to me that the government does not believe that having an NI number is reliable enough proof of identity/eligibility. This says to me that either the private banks' checks are too lax, or that the NI number system is broken.

An NI Number isn't proof of identity because giving it out doesn't prove that you are the owner of that number.

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts:

Unless there has been a change recently, there is nothing to stop foreigners applying. I don't recall being asked my nationality by NS&I before. Besides, it would typically against EU rules to do this sort of thing, though I suppose non-EU nationals could be told to go swivel.

(ISAs can only be opened by residents, but there is no need to be British. I was able to open ISAs without an NI number when still a student, and expect it is still possible to do so)

Edited by MongerOfDoom

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However, asking for this level of proof says to me that the government does not believe that having an NI number is reliable enough proof of identity/eligibility. This says to me that either the private banks' checks are too lax, or that the NI number system is broken.

As of 2004 the total number of active NI numbers was...

85 milliion

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040712/text/40712w24.htm

It would be amusing to find out what the figure is now

Edited by Charlton Peston

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As of 2004 the total number of active NI numbers was...

85 milliion

http://www.publicati...xt/40712w24.htm

It would be amusing to find out what the figure is now

Why would an NI # be proof of residency or anything similar ? Not sure about this country - but I have a National Security # for the US and also comparable ones for Oz and NZ. And I am certainly not a resident of any of those places.

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Why would an NI # be proof of residency or anything similar ? Not sure about this country - but I have a National Security # for the US and also comparable ones for Oz and NZ. And I am certainly not a resident of any of those places.

It wouldn't be

But the surplus of UK NI numbers in circulation is rather on the large side. The number of current NI numbers shot up by 14 million in a decade

edit: just to be clear, I was responding to the question about the NI system being broke, not the suitability of NI numbers as a proof of residence

Edited by Charlton Peston

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It wouldn't be

But the surplus of UK NI numbers in circulation is rather on the large side. The number of current NI numbers shot up by 14 million in a decade

edit: just to be clear, I was responding to the question about the NI system being broke, not the suitability of NI numbers as a proof of residence

Lots of temporary workers. Not a great surprise. Seems a lot though. :o

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As of 2004 the total number of active NI numbers was...

85 milliion

http://www.publicati...xt/40712w24.htm

It would be amusing to find out what the figure is now

That's a lot of workers :-) Clearly, that size of discrepancy between the population and the number of workers means there is something very wrong with the NI numbers rather than with population estimates.

In the past it was perfectly possible for someone to have several NI numbers. I was told when setting up my first pension that they (i.e. the pension salesmen) used to just make them up, but the computer would no longer allow that. I queried why they needed an NI number at all since you can contribute to a pension even without working, to be told they were under no obligation to sell me a pension if I did not want to provide one. It is probably something to do with HMRC wanting to make sure no-one invests too much in money they cannot touch for decades whereas the taxman can :-)

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I can understand why they want to prevent foreign nationals from opening these accounts:

Are you sure Foreign Nationals can't apply?

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They didn't ask me for any documents when I bought my certificates. :huh:

I do already have premium bonds, maybe that was sufficient. Either that, or I've got an honest voice on the phone. ;)

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It wouldn't be

But the surplus of UK NI numbers in circulation is rather on the large side. The number of current NI numbers shot up by 14 million in a decade

edit: just to be clear, I was responding to the question about the NI system being broke, not the suitability of NI numbers as a proof of residence

Anybody who has ever come from another EU country for a summer or student job here has an NI number. They will keep it when they go home, as the few pennies on NI on their record might count for something in the future, and they would use the same number again should they ever come back.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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