Poor Kids (In Run Down Housing) (Bbc1 Now)

[scepticus]

Good post!

Looking at the debt levels and seeing how this country will get poorer in the next few years it is clear we can't pay it back and it's just kicking the can a little further down the street.

Kick the can far enough and the world takes care of itself.

That is the whole point of kicking the can.

Kicking the can is what people and civilisations have been doing since forever.

There is no 'end game'. Just kick the can then chase it and see what happens.

History is always in the making.

[brassed off brit]

Got to feel for these kids, and the parents...i dont know their finances but the kids are suffering. i've been on the dole and it is not that hard to survive

if you have kids, you get enough money to clothe and feed your kids so why the desperation in these families? i dont know.

I have a feeling that ( the bloke eluded to it) the likes of provident and shopacheque are to blame, probably giving them half his allowance!

The parents need guidance how to budget and the provi told to fook off! unless as some have said its going on beer, but i doubt it, at least i hope not.

Those kids deserve better!

[scepticus]

The problem is money. The downtrodden people in the programme are the source of monetary stability for everyone else.

If everyone had jobs and could pay for stuff, then the system would hyperinflate.

Its only the pool of unemployed that is preventing the emergence of a wage-price spiral by keeping down the wage bargaining power of the slightly more fortunate layers above.

That is how interest rates are supposed to work - raise them, make a bunch more people unemployed and thus remove their demand such that everyone else can take their bit of the pie.

That is the sick reality of money.

[Injin]

The problem is money. The downtrodden people in the programme are the source of monetary stability for everyone else.

If everyone had jobs and could pay for stuff, then the system would hyperinflate.

Its only the pool of unemployed that is preventing the emergence of a wage-price spiral by keeping down the wage bargaining power of the slightly more fortunate layers above.

That is how interest rates are supposed to work - raise them, make a bunch more people unemployed and thus remove their demand such that everyone else can take their bit of the pie.

That is the sick reality of money.

Wage price spiral?

[mark1]

The parents need guidance how to budget and the provi told to fook off! unless as some have said its going on beer, but i doubt it, at least i hope not.

Those kids deserve better!

Of course drug and alcohol addiction are rife in these families, one of the mothers had all her teeth missing she was only 45ish, a definite sign of alcoholism!

I dont know what the answer is, the whole situation is so far gone imo!

[brassed off brit]

The problem is money. The downtrodden people in the programme are the source of monetary stability for everyone else.

If everyone had jobs and could pay for stuff, then the system would hyperinflate.

Its only the pool of unemployed that is preventing the emergence of a wage-price spiral by keeping down the wage bargaining power of the slightly more fortunate layers above.

That is how interest rates are supposed to work - raise them, make a bunch more people unemployed and thus remove their demand such that everyone else can take their bit of the pie.

That is the sick reality of money.

In a way your right, in order to have "winners " there must be "losers" but it honestly ok to be unemployed and not destitute if you plan ahead and

and don't take no notice of adverts brainwashing you into believing that you are not a real person if you do'nt have the latest " i pad" or whatever

the guru's are peddling.

a simple life is not to be ashamed of, but that is not what hey want you to hear!

[brassed off brit]

Of course drug and alcohol addiction are rife in these families, one of the mothers had all her teeth missing she was only 45ish, a definite sign of alcoholism!

I dont know what the answer is, the whole situation is so far gone imo!

Yeah one kid had watery eyes! sign of crack addiction defo!

[Self Employed Youth]

In a way your right, in order to have "winners " there must be "losers" but it honestly ok to be unemployed and not destitute if you plan ahead and

and don't take no notice of adverts brainwashing you into believing that you are not a real person if you do'nt have the latest " i pad" or whatever

the guru's are peddling.

a simple life is not to be ashamed of, but that is not what hey want you to hear!

As as proportion of average wage, the unemployed don't do very well as in times past.

That said, neither do the majority of workers whom earn below average.

We have massively inequality.

Scepticus makes some very valid points. Unemployment is structural, it is good for 'business', for those with REAL capital. Debt is very easily available though, like a large patch of banana skins before a hurdle.

[brassed off brit]

As as proportion of average wage, the unemployed don't do very well as in times past.

That said, neither do the majority of workers whom earn below average.

We have massively inequality.

Scepticus makes some very valid points. Unemployment is structural, it is good for 'business', for those with REAL capital. Debt is very easily available though, like a large patch of banana skins before a hurdle.

just boils my p1ss that you are looked upon as a loser if you dont work 60 hours a week for you 2 weeks in spain, just so you kids can say i've been to blah,blah land

in the holidays. nowt wrong with being "not rich" if ya happy fook everyone else!

[Injin]

just boils my p1ss that you are looked upon as a loser if you dont work 60 hours a week for you 2 weeks in spain, just so you kids can say i've been to blah,blah land

in the holidays. nowt wrong with being "not rich" if ya happy fook everyone else!

That attitude has been fostered mostly by the taxing classes.

If you are happy with ****** all and have nowt much, where is the Ed and Dave roadshow going to get it's fuel from?

[brassed off brit]

That attitude has been fostered mostly by the taxing classes.

If you are happy with ****** all and have nowt much, where is the Ed and Dave roadshow going to get it's fuel from?

Who cares injin? before ed and dave it was tony and brown! before that it was thatcher, they all thought and still do we have money to spend on

useles sh1te earned from doing useles sh1te!

My head hurts sometimes from telling people they are on a big hamster wheel and its time to get off and get shaggin!

( I know that grey fella was before tony but i cant for the life of me remember his name! spelling crap tonight

to much vino!)

Edited June 8, 2011 by brassed off brit

[jammo]

Socialism, capitalism, communism, all the paradigms we have are all proved flawed. What we need is some egghead to think up a completely new system. One that works. Perhaps there is one, but *ism erases it from the zeitgeist as a threat before it takes off? I don't know, but we can't just keep reinventing the same old useless crap that is working so inefficiently at bettering the human condition.

Kids these days have it quite bad don't they, no job prospects, even after you've paid a lecturer's randsom for an education. Overwhelming debt and tax burden before you have a footing in life. Shysters as role models. The lottery is many kids' realistic option of home ownership - a basic neccesity. The whole spiralling inflation thing making good honest work a mug's game (although something is going to give soon). I suspect they will try and keep them plates spinning up until about a month after the Olypmics have ended, then it's implosion time.

But I'm not a doom mongerer - wouldn't like the Guardian readers to think so - there will be an aftermath, there may be slightly fewer rich people one way or another, markedly more poor. But them that are neither, will still be neithers. There will be less children for a while I suspect, demographies will change. The losers are the kids of today, these urchins will suffer more than kids from the 2000s, the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, 60s, 50s. But they will at least have a chance of owning an iPad - as long as they're happy to sell a kidney for one.

My 2 cents

[brassed off brit]

Socialism, capitalism, communism, all the paradigms we have are all proved flawed. What we need is some egghead to think up a completely new system. One that works. Perhaps there is one, but *ism erases it from the zeitgeist as a threat before it takes off? I don't know, but we can't just keep reinventing the same old useless crap that is working so inefficiently at bettering the human condition.

Kids these days have it quite bad don't they, no job prospects, even after you've paid a lecturer's randsom for an education. Overwhelming debt and tax burden before you have a footing in life. Shysters as role models. The lottery is many kids' realistic option of home ownership - a basic neccesity. The whole spiralling inflation thing making good honest work a mug's game (although something is going to give soon). I suspect they will try and keep them plates spinning up until about a month after the Olypmics have ended, then it's implosion time.

But I'm not a doom mongerer - wouldn't like the Guardian readers to think so - there will be an aftermath, there may be slightly fewer rich people one way or another, markedly more poor. But them that are neither, will still be neithers. There will be less children for a while I suspect, demographies will change. The losers are the kids of today, these urchins will suffer more than kids from the 2000s, the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, 60s, 50s. But they will at least have a chance of owning an iPad - as long as they're happy to sell a kidney for one.

My 2 cents

Depressing is'nt it !

[jammo]

Depressing is'nt it !

Not for me personally. Despite us being in a depression, it doesn't affect me personally that badly. But I think independantly of the zeitgeist, as does anyone who wasn't just swept along with the HPC mantra to some extent I would have thought. Thinking ahead, things will be quite rosy to be honest all being well and good, but the waiting does seem drawn out, I give you that. I empathise with the youth, for whom the near future must be traumatic - it's not their fault either, which must be making them angrier by the day.

[finallysold]

all kids in the uk get free healthcare, free prescriptions, free education etc etc.they get free/subsidised meals and school trips, leisure centre activities if they are from benefit claiming families. there is no reason for a child with responsible parents not to do well. the main problem these kids have is that they have poor parents who are essentially poor unmotivated and irresponsible adults who have realised that having kids is their way to an easier life. more benefits, better housing and more the kids more the benefits. is it any wonder these kids are not doing as well as they should considering the privileges they get compared to 'poorer' kids in 'poorer' countries. there is an army of public sector workers in the uk whose survival and prosperity depends on having this underclass of people . the larger the number of such people, the better it is for them. of course not to mention the more unemployed and benefit claiming underclass, the more immigrants to do the work and both will probably vote for labour. double bonus

if dont hold much hope for these kids, they will continue along the same path as their parents unless there is a real economic incentive for them to change. as long as the state makes having children financially attractive for these people, they will keep having children. if they decide that there is no additional monetary benefit or better housing for having children, these people will consider having children as a financial problem and not have as many or adopt a lifestyle that enables them to have many children. it might even make some of them more responsible if they only had the one child to deal with instead or 3 or 4.

if you infantilise people and tell them they are underprivileged and they are entitled to help and support they will keep behaving that way. if you force them to be responsible and think about how they are goign to feed their children and look after them they will hopefully be more responsible.

[General Congreve]

problem clearly isn't money, we know current benifit levels if you have kids are enough to live an ok life. These families are struggling due to other reasons, alcohol, drugs, and debt.i noticed two flatscreens and a pc in the lounge. But the family said they struggled to eat due to poverty. On dad had red nose, the other mum, well watch it

There was a big substory in each family which wad obscured by a massive political message. I would have liked to have seen the finances on screen to put it into context. I want to see income vs costs..

Well said, the problem is not money, it is people.

The people in the program were obviously just incapable of managing themselves or their families. No one starves in this country, we have free schools and health care (for the moment) and there are enough jobs in the care industry for all, should you be willing to take one.

I used to live opposite a single mother who lived in a local authority new build that would have worth over 275k on the open market. She didn't work, had 3 kids, a Peugot 206 and a people carrier. She was obviously capable of managing her generous state hand outs successfully. We should send her round to show these people how you can leech off the state and have a standard of living that would make most people in work envious.

[Alan B'Stard MP]

Hahahaha! Like the USSR provided such great accommodation for the proles?

Atleast with communism you knew where you knelt.

[sun n sea]

Whether you're rich or living on the bread line the ONE thing a good parent does is keep your house clean & tidy.

These kids were living in squalor & filth and I can't work out why? Basic cleaning materials cost next to nothing in the supermarket so it's not an issue of lack of money. If you're unemployed you can't really use the excuse that you've been too busy to clean... so time isn't the problem.

I don't care how poor you are... if you spend all day watching telly and allow your kids to live in filth you'll get f*ck all sympathy from me....clean your f*cking house you dirty b@stard!

[Wait & See]

Agree with living simply.

Who gives a toss about a Semi Detached, new kitchen, 50" TV, one of those shitty softroaders, a conservatory, rubbish dinner parties where people show just how insecure they are.

You can stick the bloody lot of it. The middle classes are just as skint as the poor people in the programme. The only reason they have an ipad is because they can (could) borrow cash to buy it.

Anyone without real capital is poor in the UK. Some can borrow, some can't. All very poor.

[PopGun]

I agree. Change is coming, its all round us. Just won't happen overnight, is all.

To late for the poor little things in that programme though.

Makes me physically sick to see what we do to people in the name of economics, price stability, so called prudence: money basically.

Even sicker to see people so deluded that they think the situation of these kids is just down to HPI and Gordon Brown - basically - someone else's fault, not me guv.

+1

Just because socialism isn't the answer, doesn't mean we must still persist with the current flawed, corrupt and failing system.

2011 and people are still stuck in their antique black and white worlds, reciting words of long dead old men/women. We need to move away from all this all capitalism is bad, all socialism is good (and vice versa) thinking, and actually start living in the 21st century.

Let’s leave the likes of Rand, Smith, Keynes, Marx et all in the past where they belong.

Time to move on.

[Oh Well :(]

As usual poor reporting by the BBC.

The flat with the damp did not have damp it was a condensation problem. You could see that from the mildew. Mildew likes clean water - google it.

These lazy sods couldn't be bothered to wipe down their windows each morning and keep their flat clean. Nothing to do with being poor, just to do with being poorly educated and lazy.

probably 3rd generation loosers who rely on the state to do everything for them.

[PopGun]

[quote name=Oh Well ' timestamp='1307521544' post='3014011]

As usual poor reporting by the BBC.

The flat with the damp did not have damp it was a condensation problem. You could see that from the mildew. Mildew likes clean water - google it.

These lazy sods couldn't be bothered to wipe down their windows each morning and keep their flat clean. Nothing to do with being poor, just to do with being poorly educated and lazy.

probably 3rd generation loosers who rely on the state to do everything for them.

Nah the Stasi BBC make over team went in before to over dramatise the scene, a reverse changing rooms if you will to help reinforce the article.

Leaving the flat screens on view was a school boy error though, (or was it?).

[SarahBell]

I watched a clip yesterday where some destructive minx was cutting the blinds rather than someone washing them with bleach and opening a window.

Grim housing perhaps - but is it comparable to third world poverty?

[SarahBell]

One of the problems is the systems is so complex because basically it is designed to keep those running it in jobs - not to help these families

The guy with the daughter at college initially said he no longer received child benefit for his daughter because she had turned 16.

You have to fill a form in though.

Perhaps that was beyond him?

[Si1]

but the future is certainly going to shred the quaint cultural and economic "certainties" advanced by both mainstream economists and the typical HPC-er.

to a degree yes