THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD

[CyberNat]

True, but thank f*uck we voted no, because the SNP would have been begging to replace Greece in the domino box by now.

Yes you are right. I am glad we voted no and now have all our decisions made from London. Much safer that way. The Greeks should have voted the way the establishment in Brussels wanted. Then they too could be in the glorious position us Scots find our self in. Their loss I suppose!

[Venger]

Was that a credit I just heard crunch.

It does sort of fall into the definition of deflationary crash trigger to me, the sums/debt seem vast, but no doubt the global authorities will be able to prevent contagion in £$€Yetc tinkerings for wider asset value protection.

When the volume of credit is large, investors can perceive vast sums of money and value where in fact there are only repayment contracts, which are financial assets dependent upon consensus valuation and the ability of debtors to pay. IOUs can be issued indefinitely, but they have value only as long as their debtors can live up to them and only to the extent that people believe that they will. The dynamics of value expansion and contraction explain why a bear market can bankrupt millions of people.

Edit: source http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2008/05/02/Bear-Stearns-Explained-How-Financial-Values-Can-Disappear.aspx

Edited July 5, 2015 by Venger

[dances with sheeple]

[dances with sheeple]

Yes you are right. I am glad we voted no and now have all our decisions made from London. Much safer that way. The Greeks should have voted the way the establishment in Brussels wanted. Then they too could be in the glorious position us Scots find our self in. Their loss I suppose!

We don`t have all our decisions made from London because we have a devolved parliament, would you rather we jumped on the holed below the waterline Euro cruise?

Edited July 5, 2015 by dances with sheeple

[canbuywontbuy]

Because the integrity of 'The Project' is worth more to them...

Irreversible damage has already been done, it still remains to be seen if it will be terminal...

.....I'm sure the Greeks will accept any money from the ECB without any concessions whatsoever if the ECB are so desperate to keep their project afloat.

[dances with sheeple]

Sunday 5th July - An important day for Europe and beyond. Maybe it's European countries Independance Day!

It will be an interesting week. I anticipate stock markets will take a battering particularly Germany and France. Money makers will want a resolution to the crisis soon.

It would be nice to think that the general populations across Europe and indeed in the UK are beginning to wake up and realise they can protest against austerity and the bankers. If Greece were to cut a good deal and stay in the Euro then the rest of the PIIGS will start causing problems. I think it is more likely that Greece will leave the Euro and go back to the Drachma. The Euro elites only real option - make Greece suffer in front of all of Europe.

The whole unproductive western world is at the end of a massive fiat debt bubble and its starting to feel like the early days of its demise. Trouble is it will bring upheaval, uncertainly and misery at best.

Well the elites/bankers will have to deal with the full default scenario if they do that, then the next country who wants to negotiate will be in a stronger position because they can`t lose two countries and hope to credibly continue the euro project?

[thom123]

Spreadbetting market has opened with a 2% drop in the FTSE: http://www.ig.com/uk/ig-indices/ftse-100

[dances with sheeple]

[SillyBilly]

Yes you are right. I am glad we voted no and now have all our decisions made from London. Much safer that way. The Greeks should have voted the way the establishment in Brussels wanted. Then they too could be in the glorious position us Scots find our self in. Their loss I suppose!

SNP want phoney independence, can't see the EU for what it is. At least the rabble has died down a bit after the collapse in oil price, would have been an interesting first budget for an independent Scotland!

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

What are you on about? The last time I looked Scotland was the most politically engaged and democratic country in the UK.

Ahahahahahahahha

I'll sleep well on that joke

[CyberNat]

We don`t have all our decisions made from London because we have a devolved parliament, would you rather we jumped on the holed below the waterline Euro cruise?

You are right except the parts where English MP's can exclusively vote on matters that can affect Scottish budgets and Scottish MP's are not allowed to take part, where English MP's can easily outvote anything Scottish MP's raise in the house of commons, where English MP's can vote to dissolve the Scottish parliament when ever it takes their fancy, where English MP's can ensure that only the correct things are discussed at the Scottish Select Affairs committee....

The majority of Greeks have balls. The Scottish, well Renton said it better than I ever can:

True in 1996, true today!

[CyberNat]

Ahahahahahahahha

I'll sleep well on that joke

Voter turnout Scottish Independence Referendum: 84.59%

Voter turnout UK General Election (Scotland) 71.1%

(England) 65.8%

(Wales) 65.7%

(Northern Ireland) 58.1%

Sweet dreams!

[bankstersparadise]

What are you on about? The last time I looked Scotland was the most politically engaged and democratic country in the UK.

No it's a puppet of the Tory spin machine...and it's been politically neutered in the last 10 months.

[stormymonday_2011]

That is true. However, Greece is in no position to support itself at present without borrowing. Defaulting on all loans it has, will result in even much more immediate austerity, as it will need to live within its means with immediate effect, rather than going through a transition period. Nobody is going to lend money to Greece, so it will need to resort to printing its own currency, whatever they decide to call it. However, who is going to accept it in exchange for tangible goods? I sure as hell would not sell a container load of goods to be paid for in new Greek Drachmas and I cannot imagine many other businesses would either, not without a huge premium.

Pensioners in Greece who did not want a reduced pension paid in Euro will have to see just how useful a pension paid in new Greek Drachmas will be.

The spilt in the vote by age group suggest that pensioners in Greece are well aware of the consequences for them

The Greeks need to leave the Euro and cut a deal with the IMF who are likely to be strong armed into offering some assistance by the US even though the Europeans are probably going to resist. In practise Greece would leave the Eurozone and enter the Dollar zone so I would expect that to become the surrogate secondary currency for trade since the drachma will suffer a big devaluation if and when it is reintroduced. The payback for the Greeks will be the big edge in price competiveness they will almost certainly gain over their European neighbours to compensate, As for the other creditors they will just have to wait in line and hope to be paid.

If it was not for the overweening pride and ambition of those who ran the EU this situation would never have arisen since by the Eurozones own criteria Greece should never have been in the Euro in the first place and should have been turfed out the moment it could not pay its dues. They are as responsible for creating this crisis as the Greeks themselves

[CyberNat]

No it's a puppet of the Tory spin machine...and it's been politically neutered in the last 10 months.

Scotland voted SNP because all the other parties care not one jot for Scotland. It was the English that were the puppets. Lapping up the SNP scare stories. Now we are all saddled with the Tories as our imperial masters for the next 20+ years (well the rest of the UK will. We will be independent long before that!)

[long time lurking]

Voter turnout Scottish Independence Referendum: 84.59%

Voter turnout UK General Election (Scotland) 71.1%

(England) 65.8%

(Wales) 65.7%

(Northern Ireland) 58.1%

Sweet dreams!

Thats apples and oranges

[wonderpup]

Some reports Greece is planning to issue IOUs as currency.

They do have the capacity to print euros as well apparently- and some hard liner's are arguing that they should do just this.

A lot of the strategy of the EU re Greece seems to be based on the odd premise that while they can play fast and loose with the rules of the game the Greeks must not do the same- but if the ECB does not deliver the banking system stability that it's mandate demands then why should the Greeks not take corrective action to remedy this 'mistake'?

[Nationalist]

There are two immediate futures for Greece now:

1) The EU caves in, overwhelmed by the Greek OXI, and starts handing over the euros again, or

2) The Greek government starts printing IOUs (aka "script" aka "New Drachma") and gets booted from the EZ.

I'm tending towards option two....

[bankstersparadise]

Scotland voted SNP because all the other parties care not one jot for Scotland. It was the English that were the puppets. Lapping up the SNP scare stories. Now we are all saddled with the Tories as our imperial masters for the next 20+ years (well the rest of the UK will. We will be independent long before that!)

I believe in sovereignty and small government so assuming you actually live in Scotland I hope for your sake (sovereignty) and mine as an English tax payer (small government) that you do get your wish. I was very disappointed you guys failed.

Yes the English are ALSO Tory puppets, that doesn't disprove that the scots aren't, or more specifically that they got played.

Edited July 5, 2015 by bankstersparadise

[CyberNat]

Thats apples and oranges

How so?

[long time lurking]

There are two immediate futures for Greece now:

1) The EU caves in, overwhelmed by the Greek OXI, and starts handing over the euros again, or

2) The Greek government starts printing IOUs (aka "script" aka "New Drachma") and gets booted from the EZ.

I'm tending towards option two....

Can they do that (kick them out),why can`t they stay with their own currency just like the UK

[long time lurking]

How so?

Voting on two completely different proposals come to mind don`t look so good if you compare apples with apples

General election turnout since 1945, by region Election Year UK England Wales Scotland N. Ireland 2015 66.1% 65.8% 65.7% 71.1% 58.1% Edited July 5, 2015 by long time lurking

[CyberNat]

Yes the English are ALSO Tory puppets, that doesn't disprove that the scots aren't, or more specifically that they got played.

In what way did we get played? The Scot's were never going to vote Tory. The SNP had the YES vote pretty much guaranteed to vote SNP at the GE. There was 45% of the vote right away. Another 5% from disenfranchised NO voters who saw the light (a little to late). Nothing coming from the propaganda machine in England had any effect up here. That was solely for the consumption of the English and they lapped it up.

English:

[workingpoor]

There was a Greek economist interviwee on BBC earlier tonight saying that a quick devaluation of a new currency etc would only work in an economy that had goods to export and a strong manufacturing base already functioning at a good capacity neither of which Greece have after 5 years of recession and austerity.

They are screwed every way it'll just come down to the ECB / IMF gifting them money to stay afloat and prevent social breakdown / rioting.

[bankstersparadise]

In what way did we get played? The Scot's were never going to vote Tory. The SNP had the YES vote pretty much guaranteed to vote SNP at the GE. There was 45% of the vote right away. Another 5% from disenfranchised NO voters who saw the light (a little to late). Nothing coming from the propaganda machine in England had any effect up here. That was solely for the consumption of the English and they lapped it up.

English:

That cat is ginger....