Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

the coming storm

Anyone Frustrated With The Corporate Ladder?

Recommended Posts

I have always had a nagging sense over the last ten years of just not fitting in corporate environments despite - whilst the money is good, there is the whole idea of "playing the game" just sickens me. On this board we often talk about the unfairness of house prices, and buy to let exploitation - we ignore the exploliation that goes on around us in the average workplace

So many straightforward jobs are made difficult by people withholding information

There is an outward appearance of being friendly and agreeable, but below the surface its every or woman for him or herself

Every environment seems to be undermanaged - no real feedback, no expectations or advice, just left to make mistakes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always had a nagging sense over the last ten years of just not fitting in corporate environments despite - whilst the money is good, there is the whole idea of "playing the game" just sickens me. On this board we often talk about the unfairness of house prices, and buy to let exploitation - we ignore the exploliation that goes on around us in the average workplace

So many straightforward jobs are made difficult by people withholding information

There is an outward appearance of being friendly and agreeable, but below the surface its every or woman for him or herself

Every environment seems to be undermanaged - no real feedback, no expectations or advice, just left to make mistakes

How old are you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always had a nagging sense over the last ten years of just not fitting in corporate environments despite - whilst the money is good, there is the whole idea of "playing the game" just sickens me. On this board we often talk about the unfairness of house prices, and buy to let exploitation - we ignore the exploliation that goes on around us in the average workplace

So many straightforward jobs are made difficult by people withholding information

There is an outward appearance of being friendly and agreeable, but below the surface its every or woman for him or herself

Every environment seems to be undermanaged - no real feedback, no expectations or advice, just left to make mistakes

Sucks doesn't it?

Satre was right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once you realise that it's a load of old cobblers, you'll be better for it... there's isn't really such thing as a "ladder", and an employer will turf you out in a moments notice...It's the promise of better money, "prospects" etc is what gets people hooked into it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the age I started my own business for the reasons you describe.

+1 A career is just another word for a job without overtime.

When you work for someone else, you can think you are good. When you work for yourself you know how good you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you not met Dilbert?

FWIW, despite Dilbert I've found US employers a whole lot better to work for than UK ones. You don't get sneered at for being an engineer (as opposed to a Suit) by the time you're in your late 20s (and up).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found working for a US mega corp not so bad. The only aggravating thing is that the department of 200 I work in can be at the whim of a few head honchos in another country. The US corporate style you just have to let wash over you. I pretend I am in a future dystopia where videos of the leaders are endlessly beamed into your brain (well, e-mail account etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the age I started my own business for the reasons you describe.

Yes I hit the silk on my 25th birthday and have worked for myself for 34 years.The only trouble is that I think relatively few people did that in those days and consequently the opportunities for ploughing your own furrow were far greater.I was discussiung this with a friend only last week he went on his own at 30 and we agreed that it isn't likely to be very easy for the current generation.The corporate thing just means that you are still a cog in someone else's machine.As far as I am concerned it won't do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw this when working for Tesco, so I got out when I was about 26, I'd got as high as I could but Labour getting in put the kibosh on the next step up and I wasnt prepared to wait for the board.

Bumpy road but I cant see myself going back into the corporate world apart from when I have to deal with customers.

? ? How did Labour getting in affect Tesco? I would have said the one prominent thing about the noughties was the relelentless rise of that particular Great Satan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 A career is just another word for a job without overtime.

+10000. I remember you saying that before - still holds!

My current job is pretty good, I must admit... but I've had others where the office environment has been awful. It IS the prospect of higher pay and promotion that keeps you hooked (or massive mortgage to keep you enslaved). I've done really well in my current job and to be honest... being a younger chap... I expected an above inflation pay rise to mirror my efforts - needless to say I was very, very disappointed :( Catch 22 in that it's a great company, but I'd have to move to a worse one for more money.

Getting out of the rat race sounds good. Start your own business... I honestly wouldn't know what in - I'm an electronics engineer! The whole oil contracting thing sounds a decent (if tough!) thing to get into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The board were worried about how socialist their policies would be towards a big corporate ie tax take, so for starters they slapped a ban on recruitment across the whole of the company, only the very essential jobs, like checkout staff were replaced, jobs in HO and other back office jobs were left empty when people left so the company slimmed down in staff levels and budgets until they had established what Labour were about.

They wouldnt let me take a 12month sabbatical either to dip my toe so I took the plunge and left.

That sounds to me a bit like arresting someone who you think looks as if they might commit a crime.Hardly Labour's fault,more a case of cynical self interested corporatism? Maybe the lefties are right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just started work at my first corporate after 15 years of SMEs.

I think it is a fantastic move for me, but I am concerned about the sheer amount of people involved in getting things done, when it's usually been just me in charge!

Staying out of the politics and keeping my head down are key, and difficult as I am not shy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good - you are learning young enough.

+1

Now's the time to plan your exit - old enough to have good experience, young enough to have the energy. Did it myself. Would strongly recommend setting up a business, or contracting/freelance. Depends on your skills and also timing - is it a bad time in your industry? You'll also be amazed by how much less tax you pay if done right through a limited company, and so you can actually maintain your net pay whilst earning less, or better still, have a much higher net pay whilst grossing the same as now. Un/fortunately, it really really helps if you don't have a big mortgage as that chains you to a life of subordination, and have a significant pot to invest/tide you over. As an old American boss told me once "in your career, always make sure you've got some '****** you' money". Essentially, it means if an employer gives you any shit, you can always quit, which actually means you can push the boundaries too and progress quickly. I managed to engineer a redundancy package for myself from my last employers (back in 1997!) which gave me the cash to go for it. Hasn't made me rich, but made a reasonable living and, when I speak to my pals who are still on the corporate treadmill well into their 40s, are stuck there, and tell me about the corporate and political crap they have to put up with, it's one of the best things I ever did.

One of my mantras these days is "why should I have to get permission from anybody on whether or not I can take a day off?".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 A career is just another word for a job without overtime.

When you work for someone else, you can think you are good. When you work for yourself you know how good you are.

I guess my frustration is surrounded by career types - who always are banging on about how much they enjoy corporate office jobs - whilst most of the jobs I have had have been a mixture of good and bad, some elements of the jobs have been good but here is a lot of frustrations with companies just being in chaos, bad management, and colleagues who you can't trust,- and not having the authority to make a changes. It not been all bad - I am not saying that.

I just don't have the evangelical love your job mindset - I often wonder about these types - are they completely blind to the problems that surround then in an average workplace, are they completely niave to the fact that they could be turfed out of their job tommorrow.

I see many of these types who have spent years effectively sitting a desk, attending meetings, sending emails around, with no tangible skills in anything - and claim its really exciting, Is there something I am missing?

and why do they love their job so much - why that company, that organisation?

I'd just like to speak to people who have a more balanced outlook on the average job/workplace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By my observation, people stay in a job though lack of motivation to leave, (misplaced?) loyalty to their employer, fear the next place might be worse.

From the employers point of view, they want a person to tin baked beans, a person to monitor quality, a person to manage and a person to file the accounts. They want to keep the same people because they are experienced, but they don't want to pay them any more (than they have to) because they want to remain competitive.

This won't be compatible with your desire to better yourself as most companies (in my experience) don't recruit internally (they don't usually train their staff so they can).

So, unfortunately if you really want to leave (and you should mentally consider this every 3 years IMO), here is one strategy I would offer. The obvious way is just to get friendly with a professional recruitment agency.. but if you want a more structured approach:

Ladder (general)

Low skilled worker => Higher skilled worker (with power to purchase) => Sales => Management => CEO / Board of Directors.

If you are a low skilled worker, try to get into a position where you are more technical and have responsibility for purchasing (or at least using) something semi-technical.

Once you are in that position, get to know the things you purchase, then try to find a sales role for one of the companies supplying similar products. Don't think you can't do it, you know their product because you work with it. You may have experience of competitive products, and you probably know who else you currently compete with who would also buy that product.

Once in sales you have more chance of getting into senior management than from pretty much any other avenue. At this stage it is probably worth paying for some management courses.

After that it will be down to whether you actually have the ability to perform a management / senior management / CEO role.

Most people will find positions at part of that chain where they feel comfortable and will stop trying to progress.

This system only works for corporate progression.. if you want to go into business for yourself you need to be a jack of all trades from day one.

Good luck all..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I've generally found is that the more upper middle to upper class the employees/managers in an organisation, the more (sophisticated) scheming that goes on and self interested cliques developing. More in London than elsewhere. Partly to do with a very entrenched class attitude that particularly prevails down there. Old school tie and all that.

They say in the corporate environment, Americans stab you in the chest whereas the middle-upper class English stab you in the back. The Dutch, Germans, Northerners would tend to go for the front and the French, Italians etc the back. (all wild generalisations of course)

If you don't actually know who your enemies are, that makes things very difficult and some people in my experience are really, really clever at this - generally the 'better bred'.

An interesting post.I left my last job in 1977 and your description fits in very well with how I found an American company with mixed Anglo/American management. I found that the yanks just wanted to get the job done and if a bright idea came along they didnt give a damn who it came from.they were inclined to be bullies but if you stood up to them they liked you for it.All my interesting run ins came with British management.When my job disappeared I decided to leave and suggested to the head yank that they give me three months salary and show me the door with no hard feelings.They did this,much to the chagrin of my British manager who would have let it go to a tribunal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting post.I left my last job in 1977 and your description fits in very well with how I found an American company with mixed Anglo/American management. I found that the yanks just wanted to get the job done and if a bright idea came along they didnt give a damn who it came from.they were inclined to be bullies but if you stood up to them they liked you for it.All my interesting run ins came with British management.When my job disappeared I decided to leave and suggested to the head yank that they give me three months salary and show me the door with no hard feelings.They did this,much to the chagrin of my British manager who would have let it go to a tribunal.

(1)Too many managers/employees more interested in personal rivalries/back biting/politicking/looking after the people they like rather than getting the job done. There is are just so many places where many of the people working - are just not professional people.

(2) Companies use terms like "proactive" or "initiative" - which sounds fine, but in practise its often everyone working for themselves in isolation with a lack of any management control, with straight forward jobs taking much longer or being made difficult by a lack of teamwork.

(3) Companies valued "open and honest communication" - which is fine but there is no communication back to them - if you start mentioning that there in a shambles and disorganised you will be quickly shown the door.

(4)Management simply undermanage their employees. New starts are not given all the help they need because jealous coworkers don't want them to become too good at their jobs. Actually thats a biggie - I noticed the amount of people who will outwardly act friendly but withhold information because from others because if other people are performing their jobs poorly then it makes them look more competant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess my frustration is surrounded by career types - who always are banging on about how much they enjoy corporate office jobs - whilst most of the jobs I have had have been a mixture of good and bad, some elements of the jobs have been good but here is a lot of frustrations with companies just being in chaos, bad management, and colleagues who you can't trust,- and not having the authority to make a changes. It not been all bad - I am not saying that.

I just don't have the evangelical love your job mindset - I often wonder about these types - are they completely blind to the problems that surround then in an average workplace, are they completely niave to the fact that they could be turfed out of their job tommorrow.

I see many of these types who have spent years effectively sitting a desk, attending meetings, sending emails around, with no tangible skills in anything - and claim its really exciting, Is there something I am missing?

and why do they love their job so much - why that company, that organisation?

I'd just like to speak to people who have a more balanced outlook on the average job/workplace.

I would say a lot to do with it is because they like the security the mundane, easy option....maybe they have debts to pay and family to care for.....it takes a brave person to up and go it alone, total independence, total reliance on self and confidence about their ability and the demand for their skills/talents....

Often force of change, such as loss of job or redundancy can turn a life around for the better..... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just started work at my first corporate after 15 years of SMEs.

I think it is a fantastic move for me, but I am concerned about the sheer amount of people involved in getting things done, when it's usually been just me in charge!

Staying out of the politics and keeping my head down are key, and difficult as I am not shy.

....I am not shy either, and tend to speak out if I feel something is not right, unfair or could be changed for the better....trying to be as tactful as possible....in the hierarchy of large companies they are competent managers and incompetent managers, learn to find out who they are....the good managers do not feel people that are better than them as a threat, the bad managers do and can make your life difficult if they want to....work for the best, look after the best and the best will do the best they can for you. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....I am not shy either, and tend to speak out if I feel something is not right, unfair or could be changed for the better....trying to be as tactful as possible....in the hierarchy of large companies they are competent managers and incompetent managers, learn to find out who they are....the good managers do not feel people that are better than them as a threat, the bad managers do and can make your life difficult if they want to....work for the best, look after the best and the best will do the best they can for you. ;)

Years ago, when I was working as a sales manager, the sales director said "Always treat the people who work for you with respect, you may want to work for them in a few years time". Wise words that I never forgot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Years ago, when I was working as a sales manager, the sales director said "Always treat the people who work for you with respect, you may want to work for them in a few years time". Wise words that I never forgot.

Yes, wise words indeed, you never know when or where someone you once worked with might popup in the future. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(1)Too many managers/employees more interested in personal rivalries/back biting/politicking/looking after the people they like rather than getting the job done. There is are just so many places where many of the people working - are just not professional people.

(2) Companies use terms like "proactive" or "initiative" - which sounds fine, but in practise its often everyone working for themselves in isolation with a lack of any management control, with straight forward jobs taking much longer or being made difficult by a lack of teamwork.

(3) Companies valued "open and honest communication" - which is fine but there is no communication back to them - if you start mentioning that there in a shambles and disorganised you will be quickly shown the door.

(4)Management simply undermanage their employees. New starts are not given all the help they need because jealous coworkers don't want them to become too good at their jobs. Actually thats a biggie - I noticed the amount of people who will outwardly act friendly but withhold information because from others because if other people are performing their jobs poorly then it makes them look more competant.

That's a massive one where i work, i'm looking forward to requesting working a 3 day week at the end of the month, sometimes it's good to have an upper hand :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.