enworb Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I haven't seen this subject discussed before on this forum but I dare say it has been. My question - why can't FTB'ers see that an open plan lounge/diner/kitchen is only a beneift to the developer. All three squeezed into 18' x 14'! I've no problem with knocking walls down in house to create open plan living because the same volume of space is available, and it often looks very homely. But the new build flats have the back wall with nits and a length of worktop....and maybe 2 returns of 1M (corner units or carousels). And all appliances are built in. Which leaves very little storage space. I don't want to upset anyone that has bought this type of flat but you really should have checked out victorian conversions or maisonettes first. Probably not as cool but a better quality build and far more living space. I wouldn't have a problem at all if the prices reflected the fact that they're only getting half a flat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPOD Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Developer/estate agent speak: Open Plan Living Translation: This place is so small if we had put walls in you would have thought you were in a coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I visited two showhomes that were supposedly 4 bedroom executive houses in the Sketty part of Swansea a while back and was amazed not just how small the kitchens were BUT that each only had a very tiny fridge, with ice-box, in it. There simply was no room for even an average sized fridge freezer let alone the newer US style bigger ones that familes now seem to buy and which, in a 4 bedroom house, you would expect to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 It can look quite cool.. build standards aside.. Annecdote.. a few years ago I was lucky enough to visit Egypt. There I was able to visit the steps pyramid.. the oldest stone built structure in the world... I couldn't enter the pyramid itself but I could go into one of the buildings near, built at the same time.. The outside was battered over 5000 years of weather.. But stood.. The inside.. They used no mortar.. and millenia later I could not feel the seem between the stones.. Still smooth.. you could see the change in the stone.. but could not feel the change.. That was the first building ever made.. Now.. go to a new build executive flat and check out that bad boy.. as comparisons go.. there are none.. Small kitchens.. just don't cook too many flavours.. makes your sofa smell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 On Paramount Comedy a couple of nights ago a stand-up comedian was telling a joke abouth is new London flat which allows him to cook in his kitchen whilst sitting on the toilet in his bathroom. He said the biggest problem was when people visited as he could continue cooking whilst sitting on the loo and still be able to open the front door! "Come on in, let me take your coat. I'll be with you in a minute, I'm just finishing the meal whilst having a..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 I viewed a flat just before I bought my place in 2001. It was a 1 bedroom flat which was part of a huge stately home. The problem is, every flat is different depending which part of the house is once was. Some had a ceiling height of just over 6 foot (apparently, but I declined to view these) and all flats had different square footage. The one I viewed, within my £120k budget, had 1 bedroom, shower room, lounge and kitchen. From the pictures on the details, the photographer somehow made the lounge look a reasonable size, 15' or so. I got there and entered the lounge. I took one step and was already into the kitchen - which I had to sidle into. I wish I'd checked the kitchen appliances and storage space but I would have probably pulled a muscle doing so. The asking price was £110k then, now going for around £140. I've been in bigger women Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy88s Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 This country is prett much unique in the fact that it does not generally list total square footage in sales particulars. Estate agents (may they die in their own vomit) should be forced to decare 1. the total living are 2. the total volume. The problem with the latter is that I doubt it very much if they could calculate volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 This country is prett much unique in the fact that it does not generally list total square footage in sales particulars.Estate agents (may they die in their own vomit) should be forced to decare 1. the total living are 2. the total volume. The problem with the latter is that I doubt it very much if they could calculate volume. You should try London, in my price range the volume is about 3 pints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 thing is...if they put in a large fancy oak kitched with full dining area, the city living microbes would then be demanding gardens and driveways. uber living isnt about space - its about picturing yourself on a fasionable billboard with a blonde 27-32 year old partner. holding some white wine. on a large white sofa. perhaps glancing at a catalogue. him' points to gym equipment and/or sports goods. her' points to the outline of a ***** in the mens underwear section. its a wrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushroom Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 This sort of monstrosity is a physical manifestation of much that is now wrong with this country. Living cells for worker ants. They don't need space to live, relax and just be themselves. Seen by the "system" as mere economic units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezer Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I agree that the build quality on many recent new builds is atrocious. I went round to a work colleagues house that he rents in London, a very recent new build. I was really shocked ! I give it 10 years before the roof comes off and the walls fall down. The owner must have bought it before it was built as an 'investment'. As for the open plan lounge/kitchen thing, I like it. I've been into and rented myself many old properties that have been converted into this style. Blame it on episodes of 'Friends' or whatnot but I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 I agree that the build quality on many recent new builds is atrocious. I went round to a work colleagues house that he rents in London, a very recent new build. I was really shocked ! I give it 10 years before the roof comes off and the walls fall down. The owner must have bought it before it was built as an 'investment'.As for the open plan lounge/kitchen thing, I like it. I've been into and rented myself many old properties that have been converted into this style. Blame it on episodes of 'Friends' or whatnot but I like it. I've refurbished a few flats in Windsor with an open planned lounge/kitchen. These were built more 30 years ago and a guess did not originally have open planned living.They removed a wall because it suited their lifestyle.And it ceated a large living space of 30' plus. Windsor is very much like London where people like to be hosts - when they aren't out wining and dining.I have no problem with this. But people that buy or rent new build flats with lounge/kitchen probably imagine entertaining all their friends........ the problem is there is only enough space for a chair and 2 seater sofa, so most people have to stand! As for the flat in Friends , I'd live in one of those (in NY) for £200K, or in London for that matter - but anywhere else in the UK i'd expect a lot more for my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Rose Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 These places look just fine until you have to put some furniture in. And your paperwork... and your books... and enough ingredients to cook a meal in those mini-kitchen cupboards... This happened last time round as well. These little places sold like hot cakes for a few years and then the prices plunged horrifically. I had friends stuck in their 'first rung on the ladder' for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alright Jack Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 This has been the crux of my argument about HPC. Basically there has been an influx of this type of crap at stupid prices on the back of price increases based on a real and chronic shortage of decent quality good sized family homes. HPC won't happen in the general way people on this forum believe. There is a glut of this cr@p that will end up unsold, demolished or sold off to local authorities. The good stuff that everyone is after, i.e the three to four bed semis and detached, are in desparate short supply and are never coming back down to the biblical 3.5 x salary levels. At least, not without enormous real estate expansion for a period of no less than ten years. ODPM did a thorough report on housing stock and arrived at this answer. Unfortunately, the government (fat prescott) are short of cash and need private participation which just isn't happening. Sorry to spoil the party, yet again. If you own a decent home, hang on to it, it is one of the few things worth anything in this uncertain world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libitina Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I need a seperate kitchen so I can shut the door. It helps stop the smoke alarm from going off quite so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlad1967 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 This has been the crux of my argument about HPC.Basically there has been an influx of this type of crap at stupid prices on the back of price increases based on a real and chronic shortage of decent quality good sized family homes. HPC won't happen in the general way people on this forum believe. There is a glut of this cr@p that will end up unsold, demolished or sold off to local authorities. The good stuff that everyone is after, i.e the three to four bed semis and detached, are in desparate short supply and are never coming back down to the biblical 3.5 x salary levels. At least, not without enormous real estate expansion for a period of no less than ten years. ODPM did a thorough report on housing stock and arrived at this answer. Unfortunately, the government (fat prescott) are short of cash and need private participation which just isn't happening. Sorry to spoil the party, yet again. If you own a decent home, hang on to it, it is one of the few things worth anything in this uncertain world. Absolute poopycock! (sic) Not what I'm seeing in my area just outside of Canterbury. Plenty of stuff staying unsold for ages and ages and the *only* stuff selling is at a discount (at least 10% from my own research of asking prices vs what appears in the Land Registry data) And Jack - you're not spoiling the party at all! We need little wallflowers like you - every party does!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alright Jack Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Absolute poopycock! (sic)Not what I'm seeing in my area just outside of Canterbury. Plenty of stuff staying unsold for ages and ages and the *only* stuff selling is at a discount (at least 10% from my own research of asking prices vs what appears in the Land Registry data) And Jack - you're not spoiling the party at all! We need little wallflowers like you - every party does!!! Well, I take your anecdote with a pinch of salt. All the data suggests that property isn't moving at all anywhere. It's reached its market value and there it will sit untill supply vs demographics alter - and I think we know how this will continue! If you're in well done. If not tough luck. If you are STRinging yourself along then I hope you can find an alternative investment as certain as the beautiful house you sold down the river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlad1967 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Of course you'll take my anecdote with a pinch of salt - you don't want to believe it... If I had posted links proving my case you would come up with some guff of "Your sample is too small... yadda yadda yadda..." But the fact of the matter is, I really don't care what you think - the facts are out there and all you have to do is look. If you are too blind to see what is going on that it is quite clear that it is you who has the "tough luck". I like your "all the data suggests that property isn't moving at all anywhere..." comment. So who do you think is going to blink first: the STRs and the FTBs; or the sellers. Actually the data suggests that it is the sellers who are beginning to blink. And continue to blink they will. You, on the other hand seem to have your eyes firmly shut and your head buried in the sand. And to have the audacity to suggest that I need to find an alternative investment for my savings is quite frankly risible. What do you suggest? Property? Again read the facts, open your eyes and switch on your brain and stop regurgitating the rubbish you've been spoon fed by VIs. Please don't take this personally Jack, but I have never been one to follow the crowd and this has done me quite nicely - and as I watch my savings increase month on month I cannot help but smile quietly to myself as your desireable property loses its value and you keep spouting this "jump on before you miss the boat" nonsense. Remember what happened to the Titanic? And this time, there is a distinct lack of life boats as well... glug glug glug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alright Jack Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) glug glug glug What was that suspicious noise, is boyfriend round? Edited October 1, 2005 by Alright Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlad1967 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 No boyfriend I'm afraid - but not through lack of trying.... I am actually gay so your attempt at an insult really was really just a sad attempt.... Kind of like your other arguments.... sad.... bitter.... and a bit childish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libitina Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 No boyfriend I'm afraid - but not through lack of trying.... I am actually gay so your attempt at an insult really was really just a sad attempt.... Kind of like your other arguments.... sad.... bitter.... and a bit childish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 They used no mortar.. and millenia later I could not feel the seem between the stones..Still smooth.. you could see the change in the stone.. but could not feel the change.. smell.. Easy one that - they used "Sonic" Cutters. If you study the quarries where they 'cut' the rock, they've hewn the stone from the middle (from the top of the quarry-down) and left large conceiling walls so the 'majority' could not see how they cut the stone. The funny shaped 'tuning forks' they used (sideways view of stick held by those in authority) )----/ are depicted in loads of heiroglyphs. Archaeologists have found hundreds of the 'tuning forks' but have kept them out of public view since discoveries began. Apparently, an accidental leak (by a young researcher) led to two closed off roomfulls of these forks in the Main Cairo Museum!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Hmm, and the pyramids were really landing pads for alien spacecraft Colonel O'Neil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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