Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest

China's Race For Cold Fusion

Recommended Posts

There was a huge article in yesterday's Sunday Times, entitled:

China Chases Secret of Cold Fusion

Of course, thanks to the Times's online pay wall it has disappeared without a trace, leaving nary a ripple of online discussion.

It really seems as if the Chinese authorities believe they are on to something, with full backing from the government and the big state-owned companies. In particular, one Xu Yu, after being denounced for "fake science" has recently been rehabilitated, given state backing and widespread scientific press and has claimed that 'within a decade alternative energy sources [cold fusion] could make existing nuclear reactors obsolete'.

Governments are well known for being swept along with fake science and technology (Nazi eugenics, Communism's Lysenko, Reagan's 'Star Wars programme', some would even (controversially) argue AGW at present) because governments have disproportionate, unearned resources allocated by untutored, non-scientific individuals), but I wonder if, given the resources and reputations being put on the line, they have some secret results that show they might be on to something real?

We had many discussions about this on the mega MMGW thread.

IMO we will never run out of oil and in the end vast oil reserves will remain underground as has happened here with coal

because technological advances will provide cheaper and cleaner alternatives.

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are taking over the world.

China Cranks Up Heat on Nuclear Fusion

According to a report in the state-run China Daily, the central government is planning to train 2,000 experts to pursue research and development into magnetic confinement fusion, which seeks to use magnetic fields to create the high-pressure conditions necessary for fusion.

Whether by hook or by crook, they will probably get the prize first.

China drops the Gwadar hot potato

The occasion of Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Gilani's official visit to China was an opportunity for both parties to stake a claim to a post-United States future as the closest of allies, with a shared commitment to a stabilized Afghanistan and recovering Pakistan.

Chinese state media gave spectacular coverage to the visit as a sign of its geopolitical significance. The Chinese government contributed to the sense of occasion with the kind of gesture the Pakistani military - smarting from the humiliation of the killing of Osama bin Laden by American Special Forces inside Pakistan - appreciates the most: a promise to expedite delivery of 50

Chinese fighter jets.

Then Pakistan's Defense Minister Ahmed Mukhtar put his hoof in it:

"The Chinese government has acceded to Pakistan's request to take over operations at Gwadar port [in Balochistan province] as soon as the terms of agreement with the Singapore Port Authority (SPA) expire," Associated Press of Pakistan (APP) quoted Defense Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar as saying in a statement.

According to APP, Mukhtar said Pakistan appreciated that the Chinese government agrees to run the port, but would be more grateful "if a naval base is constructed at the site of Gwadar for Pakistan." [1]

His remarks set off alarm bells around the world, as pundits dusted off the "string of pearls" analogy describing China's alleged efforts to create a network of military-ready ports, and raised the specter of the Chinese dragon bathing his vermilion claws in the milk-warm waters of the Indian Ocean.

And this will be the single biggest threat to American hegemony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

because technological advances will provide cheaper and cleaner alternatives.

What a novel, but naive thought.

Maybe it would work in a nation where its government issues its own currency, and all the oil/energy is state owned.

Not here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a helpful little graphic in the Times, which I can't reprint here. But in essence, the energy releasing process that happens in the Sun, happening at near room temperature on Earth.

I don't buy into the science as it stands.

dq + dw = 0

dq - dw = du

and

ds = dq/T

Not sure how you circumnavigate those babies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fusion doesn't circumvent the laws of thermodynamics as evidenced by the Sun. Apart from possible being imaginary (:lol:), I'm not sure how cold fusion would be different.

As you have challenged the 'end of the world cos oil is running out' tinfoil hat scenario

You may have inadvertently triggered the start of your own mega thread.

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fusion doesn't circumvent the laws of thermodynamics as evidenced by the Sun. Apart from possibly being imaginary (:lol:), I'm not sure how cold fusion would be different.

Therein lies my point.

According to the mainstream science that runs the world today, cold fusion isn't possible.

However, in the realm of quantum mechanics and physics, things can become very counter intuitive.

Maybe some day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely if "cold fusion" could happen, we would see it happening in cold places somewhere!

As far as I know, fusion happens in the sun, but that's quite hot. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fusion is all about getting light nuclei close enough to each other that they'll stick. That requires them being close, and overcoming the electrostatic repulsion. The simplest way of getting them close is to have lots of them packed together, and the simplest way of overcoming the repulsion is to have them moving fast enough. That combination means high density and pressure. If you can think up of another way of getting them close enough together to stick then you can have cold fusion. There's nothing in the laws of physics that explicitly makes it impossible, just no-one has thought up of a way of doing it. I suppose quantum effects could conceivably result in two nuclei being close enough to fuse without getting repelled; how you arrange matters for that to happen much more often than it would naturally is utterly beyond me and, I expect, everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fusion is all about getting light nuclei close enough to each other that they'll stick. That requires them being close, and overcoming the electrostatic repulsion. The simplest way of getting them close is to have lots of them packed together, and the simplest way of overcoming the repulsion is to have them moving fast enough. That combination means high density and pressure. If you can think up of another way of getting them close enough together to stick then you can have cold fusion. There's nothing in the laws of physics that explicitly makes it impossible, just no-one has thought up of a way of doing it. I suppose quantum effects could conceivably result in two nuclei being close enough to fuse without getting repelled; how you arrange matters for that to happen much more often than it would naturally is utterly beyond me and, I expect, everyone else.

Another way of getting them close enough is muon catalysed fusion, in which an electron in a hydrogen atom is replaced with a (much heavier) muon, shortening the covalent bond and pulling the nuclei together. Unfortunately, however, producing the muons consumes a lot more energy than the reaction produces. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's anything like their kettles I'd keep the receipt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fusion is all about getting light nuclei close enough to each other that they'll stick.

When they do it lasers they focus the lasers on a pellet of hydrogen. It is not the lasers that creates ignition. They simply superheat the outside of the pellet creating a shock wave. It is that bubble of energy pushing in from all sides that causes the atoms at the centre of the sphere to fuse. The cold fusion enthusiasts say the same thing is possible but on a smaller scale. Tiny collapsing bubbles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if cold fusion turns out to be a dud back in February the PRC announced it would be throwing billions at Thorium reactors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if cold fusion turns out to be a dud back in February the PRC announced it would be throwing billions at Thorium reactors.

Can you make one in an old gas cylinder? :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you make one in an old gas cylinder? :huh:

Dunno I don't know how thorium reactors work...

But in the last thorium thread there were three issues with thorium:

#1 nobody ever got beyond the prototype stage for a reactor.

#2 nobody was willing to share the technology.

#3 Thorium reactors were too cost effective which meant low profits for the nuclear power companies. Uranium fission reactors as used now with storage and reprocessing of waste is highly lucrative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno I don't know how thorium reactors work...

But in the last thorium thread there were three issues with thorium:

#1 nobody ever got beyond the prototype stage for a reactor.

#2 nobody was willing to share the technology.

#3 Thorium reactors were too cost effective which meant low profits for the nuclear power companies. Uranium fission reactors as used now with storage and reprocessing of waste is highly lucrative.

Or it's simply more complicated. Uranium fission is a well-understood problem.

More cost effective means bigger profits. Governments inevitably get heavily involved in nuclear power because doing everything is definitely not profitable (they can only make a profit by getting the taxpayer to cough up for a large part of the cost). Having a cleaner option without lots of nasty radioactive waste would seem a pretty clear-cut votewinner.

The lack of thorium reactor development is, therefore, simply down to it belonging in the "What's the point?" drawer for governments happy with uranium and not wanting the expensive of developing it to a viable level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.