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ingermany

Care Homes Out Of Cash

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Grauniad

1. This is going to be a growing story in next 10 years as the cost of caring for the old rises exponentially. None of it has been budgeted for and no projections done.

2. Southern Cross is a private enterprise looking after 31,000 residents. The company has been making money for its owners. What happens if it goes bust? Are the "customers " told to try elsewhere? The taxpayer will be handed the bill. Multiply this across the whole elderly care sector, and then remember that this is what is planned for the NHS. What will happen when "leukemias r us" go bust?

3. All of these private/public partnerships are eventually going to become public liabilities as soon as they fail, and with increasing inflation, increasing costs, and difficult economic conditions they will fail in large numbers.

Edited by ingermany

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

Let's hope you are / will be paying for yours.

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

Because that was their original "contract" with the NHS.

Would you be happy if you paid into a life insurance policy for years that was to mature on your 65th birthday and received a letter on that day telling you that they'd spent all the money elsewhere and wouldn't be paying out.

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Let's hope you are / will be paying for yours.

My mother in law is going to be moving in with us when she retires and I have no problem taking care of my father if he needed it.

I've seen the supposed "care" people get in several care homes (recalcitrant minimum wage immigrant staff who I wouldn't let look after my dog), and there's no way I could let proud family members people live out such an undignified end to their life.

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

this is what happens in other European countries here in Spain most families wouldn't dream of shipping off relatives into a care home nothing to do with money its just the way they are, trying to think of a name for it

Big family society maybe?

Edited by papag

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While I was working as a Support Worker for autistic adults I had a strong suspicion that care companies were heavily into property speculation. The home I was in was losing 43k a year although only missing one tenant. Now we have the government choice thing kicking in where relatives can hire support workers direct. Whoops turns out these firms were making money off the back of NMW workers, shock horror.

Pretty much in that industry you are left high and dry if something goes wrong, if a client drops to the floor or has cuts, or over medicated, you can be directly sued by the family or a prison sentence. I was asked repeatedly to become a meds giver 6 months into the job. This is where 7 years down the road you can still be prosecuted for giving a wrong dose (records have to be kept for 7 years as evidence). And for this extra risk, yup you get paid no extra salary.

We were asked if we know of any people with autistic adults to try and sell them care, a support worker would go to their home to help out. Then you think hang on why are the support workers not just going direct! I wonder if these care homes are folding because of the new choice policies.

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Because that was their original "contract" with the NHS.

Would you be happy if you paid into a life insurance policy for years that was to mature on your 65th birthday and received a letter on that day telling you that they'd spent all the money elsewhere and wouldn't be paying out.

They were lied to, does that give them the right to force the money out of their young?

The boomer generation racked up a load of debt, free uni education, mortgage relief, bought their houses for £500 etc...

I don't see why the younger generation should have their quality of life slaughtered because a group of old people didn't plan for not dying.

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My mother in law is going to be moving in with us when she retires and I have no problem taking care of my father if he needed it.

I've seen the supposed "care" people get in several care homes (recalcitrant minimum wage immigrant staff who I wouldn't let look after my dog), and there's no way I could let proud family members people live out such an undignified end to their life.

That's fair enough but if either of them develop dementia are you going to give up your current life to give them 24 hour care? I know I couldn't do it, it's a lot of stress and very tiering.

I work in the industry and visit many care homes, the old institutionalised care homes are a lot like what you describe, there is a lot happening at the moment to change buildings to be more suitable and more like hotels with lots of small seating areas than bedroom after bedroom and one big lounge thats turned into the dinning room for dinner.

Migrant minimum wage staff will always exist as long as people are not willing to pay and britsh people are not willing to do the job because there better off sat on there **** at home watching Jerramy Kyle.

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They were lied to, does that give them the right to force the money out of their young?

The boomer generation racked up a load of debt, free uni education, mortgage relief, bought their houses for £500 etc...

I don't see why the younger generation should have their quality of life slaughtered because a group of old people didn't plan for not dying.

Richard Cranium!

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They were lied to, does that give them the right to force the money out of their young?

The boomer generation racked up a load of debt, free uni education, mortgage relief, bought their houses for £500 etc...

I don't see why the younger generation should have their quality of life slaughtered because a group of old people didn't plan for not dying.

You could also say that the people totally wasted their time and resources rearing those disloyal, useless children.

Imagine if you put the money and effort you lavish on the sprog in a pension instead, as many people are doing nowadays, and the result is: no younger generation, no quality of life for the never born, and about the same old rip-off for the final generation as if happening now.

Either way, no matter what you do, there is not going to be a pension of any shape or form for anyone in 20 years time, those who have a house find it'll be worth next to nothing and what's left will be taxed away, people with pension funds or any assets will have them raided repeatedly.

But look on the bright side: we finally will all be equally poor, and no doubt, this is when the socialist paradise that Labour, Tories and the Liberals plus the Fabian society and all the other gangs of clever, well meaning, world-rescuing intellectuals have been working for so hard to achieve, will begin.

Edited by Cinnamon

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That's fair enough but if either of them develop dementia are you going to give up your current life to give them 24 hour care? I know I couldn't do it, it's a lot of stress and very tiering.

I work in the industry and visit many care homes, the old institutionalised care homes are a lot like what you describe, there is a lot happening at the moment to change buildings to be more suitable and more like hotels with lots of small seating areas than bedroom after bedroom and one big lounge thats turned into the dinning room for dinner.

Migrant minimum wage staff will always exist as long as people are not willing to pay and britsh people are not willing to do the job because there better off sat on there **** at home watching Jerramy Kyle.

I have absolutely no intention of burdening my relatives, or the state, with caring for me if I develop dementia.

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They were lied to, does that give them the right to force the money out of their young?

The boomer generation racked up a load of debt, free uni education, mortgage relief, bought their houses for £500 etc...

I don't see why the younger generation should have their quality of life slaughtered because a group of old people didn't plan for not dying.

We also had a basic tax rate of 30% and punitive higher earnings rates, mortgage interest at 15% or over, inflation out of control, three days weeks. We had to find DEPOSITS for housing. A 3 minute phone call abroad cost £5 when average wage was £40 a week, and a flight to the Far East cost £500, equivalent to about £5000 now.

We lived on basics and essentials. It wasn't our fault a gang of bankers decided to defraud whole populations, and rifle their life-savings.

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Grauniad

1. This is going to be a growing story in next 10 years as the cost of caring for the old rises exponentially. None of it has been budgeted for and no projections done.

2. Southern Cross is a private enterprise looking after 31,000 residents. The company has been making money for its owners. What happens if it goes bust? Are the "customers " told to try elsewhere? The taxpayer will be handed the bill. Multiply this across the whole elderly care sector, and then remember that this is what is planned for the NHS. What will happen when "leukemias r us" go bust?

3. All of these private/public partnerships are eventually going to become public liabilities as soon as they fail, and with increasing inflation, increasing costs, and difficult economic conditions they will fail in large numbers.

I watched the BBC piece on this this morning and almost broke the TV. Aged UK rep going on about getting the government to give more money. It's for the care homes to say what price something costs! its a competitive market so the government will know if they can get a better deal elsewhere! If they agree a contract and then find that they lose money on it then that's there fault - go bankrupt - another business will replace you, one that will hopefully manage there costs a little better!

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We also had a basic tax rate of 30% and punitive higher earnings rates, mortgage interest at 15% or over, inflation out of control, three days weeks. We had to find DEPOSITS for housing. A 3 minute phone call abroad cost £5 when average wage was £40 a week, and a flight to the Far East cost £500, equivalent to about £5000 now.

We lived on basics and essentials. It wasn't our fault a gang of bankers decided to defraud whole populations, and rifle their life-savings.

Exactly, but I'm afraid it's a waste of time trying to reason with the 'angry brigade', they keep their brains in their wallets :(.

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I have absolutely no intention of burdening my relatives, or the state, with caring for me if I develop dementia.

That's very thoughtful of you, I'm sure your family will be better off for it financially and emotionally. The states position on this at the moment seems to be a persons life should be preserved at all costs so many don't get the choice.

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That's very thoughtful of you, I'm sure your family will be better off for it financially and emotionally. The states position on this at the moment seems to be a persons life should be preserved at all costs so many don't get the choice.

Actually, my family do not agree but I am adamant about it.

With regard to the State, one has to fight it tooth and nail to prevent it from doing what it thinks is best for one.

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

I don't see why anyone shouldn't pay, if they have the means, but 'dealing' with them is another matter.

Maybe your mind hasn't been opened by experience, but a lot of people go to care homes because it's simply not possibly for any normal family to care for them at home.

If they are very frail (which doesn't always also mean thin and light) they may need lifting several times a day, which means two people, 24/7, 365 days a year.

If they have dementia to any moderate degree, they need supervision 24/7, 365 days a year.

It's not safe to leave someone like this alone even for an hour - it's like leaving a toddler on the loose, only worse, because among countless other things they're able to turn on the gas and then immediately forget that they've done it.

And that's without the colossal mental strain on a carer of anyone demented, which nobody can possibly understand until they've done it, on their own, for at least a week.

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this is what happens in other European countries here in Spain most families wouldn't dream of shipping off relatives into a care home nothing to do with money its just the way they are, trying to think of a name for it

Big family society maybe?

Yes and in Spanish culture old people still have a function as the head of the family don't they? Here we start disrespecting them as teenagers and it just gets worse from there.

I can understand people going into care homes if they have severe dementia that is becoming dangerous for them or other needs that can't be realistically cared for at home but perfectly lucid healthy elderly people are regularly dumped on the state which is why the state can't afford the whole thing any more. It's a fallacy that we had some contract with the state that at any point we choose they would have to house and feed us until we die. No wonder we've become a feckless nation if people have lost the desire to be self sufficient.

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

If they have family left.

If the family they have are not out all day trying to pay the mortgage. and can cope.

There is plenty of money to pay for elderly care in this country. We just need to start shooting the looters.

Edited by Sir John Steed

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Drop them off at relatives and give them free vouchers for sheds!

Seriously though, why should anyone else have to pay or deal with the elderly other than their own family?

And those who have no family? I'm thinking of an elderly (80ish) woman who was an only child, gave up her job in her 30s to care for her aged parents, who didn't die until they were in their 90s and she over 60 - hardly able to start looking for a new career! Nearest relative a cousin's child in Australia.

Exactly which family would you drop her off with?

That's not to say that the family shouldn't contribute where appropriate - a brutal "You can look after Mum and inherit her assets, OR you can put her in care. Not both." seems perfectly fair to me. (Though would doubtless lead to lots of family disagreements - read King Lear for a template!)

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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