aa3 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 On another thread they show how when you go to the pub, most of the cst of the pint of beer you buy goes as interest to the bankers. Mainly the insane cost of commercial real estate means the rent or mortgage payment must be met each month.. taking the lion's share of revenue. A way to reset the system without getting rid of property rights is just to give every Brit £1,000,000 pounds. Boom all debts would be paid off within a few weeks. Everyone would be debt free. Then you would watch the huge push as money came out to be spent in the economy, instead of all just going to interest to the bankers. The publican would suddenly own his pub free and clear.. and all his customers would be debt free as well. Of course the debt cycle would soon start again, but it could start from a clean slate. A couple generations from now it would again need the reset button. Prices would soon adjust to the new level of money in the economy, but on the whole nearly everyone would be much better off, because this huge debt burden would be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Right now our debtalist system isn't working. We have tremendous unemployment and underemployment. Even those 'employed' often sit waiting for customers most of the day. Its not even a capitalist system.. it has capitalist elements but the main aspect is debt and speculation. Germany is one of the few western nations I see practicng capitalism. Where you build up capital over time, taking debt out for expansion, then using the expanded capital plant to pay off this new small debt. Spain has 45% unemployment among young adults, and 21% for the general population. That is outright failed state, like the old communist block nations. Not surprising Spain is nearing revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Relaxation Suite Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 On another thread they show how when you go to the pub, most of the cst of the pint of beer you buy goes as interest to the bankers. Mainly the insane cost of commercial real estate means the rent or mortgage payment must be met each month.. taking the lion's share of revenue. A way to reset the system without getting rid of property rights is just to give every Brit £1,000,000 pounds. Boom all debts would be paid off within a few weeks. Everyone would be debt free. Then you would watch the huge push as money came out to be spent in the economy, instead of all just going to interest to the bankers. The publican would suddenly own his pub free and clear.. and all his customers would be debt free as well. Of course the debt cycle would soon start again, but it could start from a clean slate. A couple generations from now it would again need the reset button. Prices would soon adjust to the new level of money in the economy, but on the whole nearly everyone would be much better off, because this huge debt burden would be gone. But they want us in debt though. If we weren't in debt most of us would move to an island and fish for food and grow our own vegetables. Then who supports the elite? Who sails their yachts, pours their drinks, flies their private jets? Who fixes their teeth and does their accounts? Oh no, debt is here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Right now our debtalist system isn't working. We have tremendous unemployment and underemployment. Even those 'employed' often sit waiting for customers most of the day. Its not even a capitalist system.. it has capitalist elements but the main aspect is debt and speculation. Germany is one of the few western nations I see practicng capitalism. Where you build up capital over time, taking debt out for expansion, then using the expanded capital plant to pay off this new small debt. Spain has 45% unemployment among young adults, and 21% for the general population. That is outright failed state, like the old communist block nations. Not surprising Spain is nearing revolution. I agree that rentier capitalism isn't working. Not sure about giving every £1M though. I think the populace have to start starving the parasites though, start organising and operating in a way that bypasses the state, banks and corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I put you in the same class of fruitloop as erranta. What's with this ceremony of printing up 100,000? Just default and jubilee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 On another thread they show how when you go to the pub, most of the cst of the pint of beer you buy goes as interest to the bankers. Mainly the insane cost of commercial real estate means the rent or mortgage payment must be met each month.. taking the lion's share of revenue. A way to reset the system without getting rid of property rights is just to give every Brit £1,000,000 pounds. Boom all debts would be paid off within a few weeks. Everyone would be debt free. Then you would watch the huge push as money came out to be spent in the economy, instead of all just going to interest to the bankers. The publican would suddenly own his pub free and clear.. and all his customers would be debt free as well. Of course the debt cycle would soon start again, but it could start from a clean slate. A couple generations from now it would again need the reset button. Prices would soon adjust to the new level of money in the economy, but on the whole nearly everyone would be much better off, because this huge debt burden would be gone. And what would we all eat while prices stabilised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Fur Q Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Moral hazard. I imagine that most who agree with this have gorged themselves with debt over the last boom without considering the consequences. If you don't take on massive debts, you're not a slave to the banks. It has been people's choice to take on these debts while they were manipulated by the house price boom propaganda just like it was mine and others choices to not take on a massive debt "because house prices always go up". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I put you in the same class of fruitloop as erranta. What's with this ceremony of printing up 100,000? Just default and jubilee it. Debt is a feeling, the feeling cannot be dealt with rationally, only extinguished by action. The repayment is sign, simulcra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryMeanReversion Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 A way to reset the system without getting rid of property rights is just to give every Brit £1,000,000 pounds. Boom all debts would be paid off within a few weeks. When money ceases to be anything meaningful, no one will use it. I see our current money degenerating into a liars promise. As a compromise, they just decided to give the bankers a few million each instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lister Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Way to create instant hyperinflation, devalue the pound and wreck the economy. No one would bother going to work the next day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 So bailout money instead of going straight to the banks it would go to the banks via the public? I don't see how this would reduced the power of the banks, they would just have even more money. Wouldn't a better idea be everyone en mass just telling them to piss off, then they would go under before 0.01% of anything get repossessed? I imagine both ideas are flawed but think both are better than what is going on at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Moral hazard. I imagine that most who agree with this have gorged themselves with debt over the last boom without considering the consequences. If you don't take on massive debts, you're not a slave to the banks. It has been people's choice to take on these debts while they were manipulated by the house price boom propaganda just like it was mine and others choices to not take on a massive debt "because house prices always go up". This is what seperates my idea from a debt jubilee. Say a friend of yours was up to his eyeballs in debt.. say had £500k in debt. His £1,000,000.. half would go to pay the debt he owed, and he'd keep £500,000. On the other hand if you are debt free you'd keep your full million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Way to create instant hyperinflation, devalue the pound and wreck the economy. No one would bother going to work the next day! Devalue the pound would be great for our industries. But for going to work.. I would work nearly 24/7 for the next few months. Imagine you were a car salesman.. and all of a sudden hundreds of people want to buy new cars and are trying to outbid each other. That would quickly feed through the whole chain, like to the manufacturing plants. They would start paying whatever it took to get people working there. Maybe give some unemployed people a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Devalue the pound would be great for our industries. But for going to work.. I would work nearly 24/7 for the next few months. Imagine you were a car salesman.. and all of a sudden hundreds of people want to buy new cars and are trying to outbid each other. That would quickly feed through the whole chain, like to the manufacturing plants. They would start paying whatever it took to get people working there. Maybe give some unemployed people a chance. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&xhr=t&q=facepalm&cp=7&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1320&bih=678 Take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Fur Q Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Devalue the pound would be great for our industries. But for going to work.. I would work nearly 24/7 for the next few months. Imagine you were a car salesman.. and all of a sudden hundreds of people want to buy new cars and are trying to outbid each other. That would quickly feed through the whole chain, like to the manufacturing plants. They would start paying whatever it took to get people working there. Maybe give some unemployed people a chance. Exactly - that's hyper inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Fur Q Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 This is what seperates my idea from a debt jubilee. Say a friend of yours was up to his eyeballs in debt.. say had £500k in debt. His £1,000,000.. half would go to pay the debt he owed, and he'd keep £500,000. On the other hand if you are debt free you'd keep your full million. I agree that something needs to change but i don't agree with your idea. If everyone slides up the scale by a million quid, the rich will still be richer than you. Is your issue just that people have debts or that the system is unbalanced? Personally I like the idea that everyone is free to make their own decisions. Whether they choose to get into enormous debts in keeping up with the joneses or whether they live within their means is up to them. I suspect both paths can lead to happiness but the debt route carries more risk to make you very unhappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Wouldn't a monetary system reliant on exponential growth (2% is still exponential) result in Hyper inflation anyway at some point, especially butting up against a ceiling of finite resources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) On another thread they show how when you go to the pub, most of the cst of the pint of beer you buy goes as interest to the bankers. Mainly the insane cost of commercial real estate means the rent or mortgage payment must be met each month.. taking the lion's share of revenue. A way to reset the system without getting rid of property rights is just to give every Brit £1,000,000 pounds. Boom all debts would be paid off within a few weeks. Everyone would be debt free. Then you would watch the huge push as money came out to be spent in the economy, instead of all just going to interest to the bankers. The publican would suddenly own his pub free and clear.. and all his customers would be debt free as well. Of course the debt cycle would soon start again, but it could start from a clean slate. A couple generations from now it would again need the reset button. Prices would soon adjust to the new level of money in the economy, but on the whole nearly everyone would be much better off, because this huge debt burden would be gone. +10,000,000,000 absolute nail on head Once again your economic gravitas shines through like a beacon of truth for all of us, well worth waking up to Edited May 25, 2011 by georgia o'keeffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezo Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Devalue the pound would be great for our industries. But for going to work.. I would work nearly 24/7 for the next few months. Imagine you were a car salesman.. and all of a sudden hundreds of people want to buy new cars and are trying to outbid each other. That would quickly feed through the whole chain, like to the manufacturing plants. They would start paying whatever it took to get people working there. Maybe give some unemployed people a chance. No one would be interested in buying a car because no one could afford to run one, within a week petrol would be at £500 a litre. You would own £1000000 or the equivalent of one loaf of bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I put you in the same class of fruitloop as erranta. What's with this ceremony of printing up 100,000? Just default and jubilee it. Let me know if this print run or jubilee is going to happen. Buying real assets with debt before the event will yield far more than trying to spend that newly minted cash afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekking Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Way to create instant hyperinflation, devalue the pound and wreck the economy. No one would bother going to work the next day! +1 I was wondering who would be delivering my newspapers, there again, the wouldn't be any. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekking Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 +10,000,000,000 absolute nail on head Once again your economic gravitas shines through like a beacon of truth for all of us, well worth waking up to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 This is what seperates my idea from a debt jubilee. Say a friend of yours was up to his eyeballs in debt.. say had £500k in debt. His £1,000,000.. half would go to pay the debt he owed, and he'd keep £500,000. On the other hand if you are debt free you'd keep your full million. I see what your trying to do - inflate the debt away but also reward people who arn't in debt. A better would be to simple give everyone a £ for every £ they already have of positive net worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekking Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I agree that something needs to change but i don't agree with your idea. If everyone slides up the scale by a million quid, the rich will still be richer than you. Is your issue just that people have debts or that the system is unbalanced? Personally I like the idea that everyone is free to make their own decisions. Whether they choose to get into enormous debts in keeping up with the joneses or whether they live within their means is up to them. I suspect both paths can lead to happiness but the debt route carries more risk to make you very unhappy. +1 Maybe we can get rid of the fraud called fictional reserve banking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 And what would we all eat while prices stabilised? My food stash can last longer than markets can stay irrational. Or however that saying goes. eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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