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Spain: Protesters Defy Ban With Anti-Government Rallies

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"They want to leave us without public health, without public education, half of our youth is unemployed, they have risen the age of our retirement as well," said protester Natividad Garcia.

think this is happening all over europe now, apart from the UK as they take it up the Khyber

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13481592

a democracy banning protests just shows you that countries dont have democracies.

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So, how does raising the retirement age solve the problem of 45% youth unemployment. Anyone?

People who are working for longer will need someone to make their coffee for them.

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think this is happening all over europe now, apart from the UK as they take it up the Khyber

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13481592

a democracy banning protests just shows you that countries dont have democracies.

Democracy, as lauded by the plutocrats that run it, does not care for anyone that refuses to provide them with gravy. It really does not.

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This does look like the beginning of the 'European Spring', the moment I've been waiting years for and arguing is neccessary.

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia, when Mohamed Bouazizi was trying to make a living as a street vendor. But the Tunisian authorities made it a requirement to be licensed to be a street fruit vendor. And they limited the number o licenses available. In the bidding for the licenses Mohamed Bouazizi could not afford it.

With his livelihood taken from him, he immolated himself in an act of protest. That started the mass protests against tyranny in the Arab world.

Now Spanish youth are starting to rise up. And they are exactly right to, if they don't do something now in a collective movement, most will spend their whole life either outright unemployed or just barely surviving. This in a first world European nation.

The Spanish youth movement has made an incredible breakthrough of thought. Instead of being for the right wing party or for the leftwing party they are against both of them. Which is a much more powerful line of attack. As this left/right divide has been diffusing legitimate resistance for decades. Sadly though, they want 'more democracy'. Which I don't see solving the problems.

The final step is when they are ready to empower one man to solve the problems the nation faces. Like Putin has done in Russia. Once the problems are solved and there is opportunity they will be out there making money and having families. And the money will be there to cover the older people too.

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This does look like the beginning of the 'European Spring', the moment I've been waiting years for and arguing is neccessary.

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia, when Mohamed Bouazizi was trying to make a living as a street vendor. But the Tunisian authorities made it a requirement to be licensed to be a street fruit vendor. And they limited the number o licenses available. In the bidding for the licenses Mohamed Bouazizi could not afford it.

With his livelihood taken from him, he immolated himself in an act of protest. That started the mass protests against tyranny in the Arab world.

Now Spanish youth are starting to rise up. And they are exactly right to, if they don't do something now in a collective movement, most will spend their whole life either outright unemployed or just barely surviving. This in a first world European nation.

The Spanish youth movement has made an incredible breakthrough of thought. Instead of being for the right wing party or for the leftwing party they are against both of them. Which is a much more powerful line of attack. As this left/right divide has been diffusing legitimate resistance for decades. Sadly though, they want 'more democracy'. Which I don't see solving the problems.

The final step is when they are ready to empower one man to solve the problems the nation faces. Like Putin has done in Russia. Once the problems are solved and there is opportunity they will be out there making money and having families. And the money will be there to cover the older people too.

Ah....the old "strong man " myth.

Why are you so in thrall to Fascism?

Seriously, Is it the uniforms? Or do you just like military music?

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This does look like the beginning of the 'European Spring', the moment I've been waiting years for and arguing is neccessary.

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia, when Mohamed Bouazizi was trying to make a living as a street vendor. But the Tunisian authorities made it a requirement to be licensed to be a street fruit vendor. And they limited the number o licenses available. In the bidding for the licenses Mohamed Bouazizi could not afford it.

With his livelihood taken from him, he immolated himself in an act of protest. That started the mass protests against tyranny in the Arab world.

Now Spanish youth are starting to rise up. And they are exactly right to, if they don't do something now in a collective movement, most will spend their whole life either outright unemployed or just barely surviving. This in a first world European nation.

The Spanish youth movement has made an incredible breakthrough of thought. Instead of being for the right wing party or for the leftwing party they are against both of them. Which is a much more powerful line of attack. As this left/right divide has been diffusing legitimate resistance for decades. Sadly though, they want 'more democracy'. Which I don't see solving the problems.

The final step is when they are ready to empower one man to solve the problems the nation faces. Like Putin has done in Russia. Once the problems are solved and there is opportunity they will be out there making money and having families. And the money will be there to cover the older people too.

Ah....the old "strong man " myth.

Why are you so in thrall to Fascism?

Seriously, Is it the uniforms? Or do you just like military music?

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Ah....the old "strong man " myth.

Why are you so in thrall to Fascism?

Seriously, Is it the uniforms? Or do you just like military music?

I understand the impulse (although I disagree with it). Democracy has 'failed' - it's turned into a PR exercise.

Personally, I'd support stronger laws restraining financial governance in both the private and public sector. No more deficits for one. If that means a rethink in how money is created, so be it - it's needed anyway. If the only people driving posh cars were workers at the posh-car factory, you might suspect there was a problem with theft, yet we seem happy with the money creators walking off with all the money...*

* actually, I'm surprised how many of the richest in the UK are in manufacturing, but I suspect that these isolated pockets of wealth are dwarfed by the money making its way into the pockets of the financiers as a whole.

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Ah....the old "strong man " myth.

Why are you so in thrall to Fascism?

Seriously, Is it the uniforms? Or do you just like military music?

A strongman can get things done, and the easiet way to stay in power is just to provide big time jobs and opportunity to the people.

Take the terrible looting by the banksters in all the democratic nations. Yet when I look at dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and China I see bankers under control. Are the rulers in China going to let some greedy bankers jeopardize their hold on power.. no.. they easily move to reign the banksters in.

But in democracies politicians are selling out the birthright of their citizens to pay interest and compound interest.

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I understand the impulse (although I disagree with it). Democracy has 'failed' - it's turned into a PR exercise.

Personally, I'd support stronger laws restraining financial governance in both the private and public sector. No more deficits for one. If that means a rethink in how money is created, so be it - it's needed anyway. If the only people driving posh cars were workers at the posh-car factory, you might suspect there was a problem with theft, yet we seem happy with the money creators walking off with all the money...*

* actually, I'm surprised how many of the richest in the UK are in manufacturing, but I suspect that these isolated pockets of wealth are dwarfed by the money making its way into the pockets of the financiers as a whole.

Yes, but once you realize those sane laws will never come in a million years in a democracy.. and you see the country literally starting to fail, change has to be made. Take for example in Spain with 45% of the young adults unemployed. And the usual diddling, weenie, incompetent politicians.

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A strongman can get things done, and the easiet way to stay in power is just to provide big time jobs and opportunity to the people.

Take the terrible looting by the banksters in all the democratic nations. Yet when I look at dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and China I see bankers under control. Are the rulers in China going to let some greedy bankers jeopardize their hold on power.. no.. they easily move to reign the banksters in.

But in democracies politicians are selling out the birthright of their citizens to pay interest and compound interest.

Strongmen as rulers have been tried thousands of times throughout history - what you get is oppression, misery, economic collapse and reigns of terror.

We need more freedom, not less.

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Strongmen as rulers have been tried thousands of times throughout history - what you get is oppression, misery, economic collapse and reigns of terror.

We need more freedom, not less.

Democracy isn't really tied to freedom though. Europe mainly went democratic during the last 100 years.. and there has been a massive expansion of the state and massive limitation on all sorts of freedoms since then.

There are several million Brits who have emigrated to live in dictatorships like the United Arab Emirates, Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong.. to enjoy more freedom and opportunity.

Sadly many start agitating for unions and democracy once they get there.

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Democracy isn't really tied to freedom though. Europe mainly went democratic during the last 100 years.. and there has been a massive expansion of the state and massive limitation on all sorts of freedoms since then.

There are several million Brits who have emigrated to live in dictatorships like the United Arab Emirates, Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong.. to enjoy more freedom and opportunity.

Sadly many start agitating for unions and democracy once they get there.

I know democracy isn't tied to freedom. That's why it's such a ******ing mess.

We need less democracy, less strongmenr (even elected ones) and more freedom.

And pointing out that some people do well under a dictatorship is numb. Kings do great out of monarchy and so ******ing what? The wider society lives in squalor and the economy as a whole is rubbish compared to something less despotic.

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I know democracy isn't tied to freedom. That's why it's such a ******ing mess.

We need less democracy, less strongmenr (even elected ones) and more freedom.

And pointing out that some people do well under a dictatorship is numb. Kings do great out of monarchy and so ******ing what? The wider society lives in squalor and the economy as a whole is rubbish compared to something less despotic.

A strange type of freedom is a monarch who is too busy living it up with his billions.. and not interested in passing thousands of laws that erode freedom one by one.

On the other hand a legislature that is open 200 days of the year to pass laws. And hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats in charge of creating more regulations - which need more bureaucrats to oversee, is a problem.

An example was the rulers in Burma, an American I was reading about in Reason magazine was there. He went in to buy a perscription he wanted, no doctors note and no need to see a licensed pharmacist. The ruler of Burma couldn't care less about things like that. Mainly the repression you read about is socialist revolutionaries who want to take power themselves, and the dictator making sure they don't.

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A strange type of freedom is a monarch who is too busy living it up with his billions.. and not interested in passing thousands of laws that erode freedom one by one.

On the other hand a legislature that is open 200 days of the year to pass laws. And hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats in charge of creating more regulations - which need more bureaucrats to oversee, is a problem.

An example was the rulers in Burma, an American I was reading about in Reason magazine was there. He went in to buy a perscription he wanted, no doctors note and no need to see a licensed pharmacist. The ruler of Burma couldn't care less about things like that. Mainly the repression you read about is socialist revolutionaries who want to take power themselves, and the dictator making sure they don't.

False dichotomy - I am talking about freedom versus coercion.

You are talking about different organisations of tyranny.

We need more freedom and less coercion. (And you in particular need to go get some help with your daddy issues.)

Edited by Injin

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False dichotomy - I am talking about freedom versus coercion.

You are talking about different organisations of tyranny.

We need more freedom and less coercion. (And you in particular need to go get some help with your daddy issues.)

Well on this thread in particular the Spanish youth are rebelling against all their political parties - a huge step.. but then refusing to take it to the logical conclusion.. and instead arguing for 'more democracy'.

You might have a different answer for them, less coercion. But I don't see how you would make that happen.

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Well on this thread in particular the Spanish youth are rebelling against all their political parties - a huge step.. but then refusing to take it to the logical conclusion.. and instead arguing for 'more democracy'.

You might have a different answer for them, less coercion. But I don't see how you would make that happen.

There is no way to make it happen in any short time frame, and that's irrelevent to it being the right answer.

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There is no way to make it happen in any short time frame, and that's irrelevent to it being the right answer.

Well these young adults in Spain.. many now into their 30's are unemployed or making next to nothing. Time is ticking by on them.

What they want isn't neccessarily freedom either. Most just want a good job they can have a house and raise a family on. And the more ambitious ones want opportunity.

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The Arab Spring started in Tunisia, when Mohamed Bouazizi was trying to make a living as a street vendor. But the Tunisian authorities made it a requirement to be licensed to be a street fruit vendor. And they limited the number o licenses available. In the bidding for the licenses Mohamed Bouazizi could not afford it.

So you're saying that the problem was caused be 'strong men' forcing someone to buy a licence and can be solved by more strong men? I wonder what punishment you would suggest for selling without a licence....

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Well these young adults in Spain.. many now into their 30's are unemployed or making next to nothing. Time is ticking by on them.

What they want isn't neccessarily freedom either. Most just want a good job they can have a house and raise a family on. And the more ambitious ones want opportunity.

What they want isn't relevent either.

They might want to sit on the sofa eating lard and wind up looking like bodybuilders. That option ain't there either.

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So you're saying that the problem was caused be 'strong men' forcing someone to buy a licence and can be solved by more strong men? I wonder what punishment you would suggest for selling without a licence....

Punishment, by an officially licenced torturer, probably.

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Actually one of the reasons I enjoy contributing to this board, is because of the rather off-beat views so many members have.

My own feeling is that anyone over the age of 40 probably has very little say in the REAL future direction of Europe. Let's face it. Most European governments have failed the young generation. You know the people who are going to be the future leaders. It isn't just Spain. Look at Ireland. Look at the UK. There is no future for the young.

I am not sure pointing to oppressive nations like the UAE or China (Hong Kong) as ideal models is a valid alternative. After all, most of these places have VERY high levels of poverty (once you leave the glitzy areas). The majority of their citizens do not have a grand life.

Fundamentally the whole global system is the problem. A corrupt and antiquated system which has allowed a few people on the top the ability to look at nations as commodities and its citizens as a mere pawns in their game.

I mean look at the f**king IMF. Why does the world need such a corrupt organization? How does it better any nation? Look at what it did to Argentina. Fortunately they had the sense to give the big middle finger to the IMF and the USA.

The fact is that anyone who lives on this planet right now, is living under a repressive regime. We may kid ourselves into thinking because we can actually vote that we live in a fair and balanced democracy. But what are you voting for? Does anyone here think there is ANY difference between Tony Blair and David Cameron (for example).

I admire the Spanish youth. They have woken up and realize no government under this corrupt and repressive world regime represents them and their best interests and futures.

I think this is only the beginning...

Edited by mel in w9

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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