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http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/36065/22m-facelift-for-failsworth-town-hall

Built in 1880 at a cost of £2,600, Failsworth Town Hall

and refurb recently for £2.2M!

Just thought this was interesting to see how much a building cost to build. (It's fab inside all glass and wood floors and a very confusing layout of books!)

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http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/36065/22m-facelift-for-failsworth-town-hall

Built in 1880 at a cost of £2,600, Failsworth Town Hall

and refurb recently for £2.2M!

Just thought this was interesting to see how much a building cost to build Sterling has been trashed. (It's fab inside all glass and wood floors and a very confusing layout of books!)

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http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/36065/22m-facelift-for-failsworth-town-hall

Built in 1880 at a cost of £2,600, Failsworth Town Hall

and refurb recently for £2.2M!

Just thought this was interesting to see how much a building cost to build. (It's fab inside all glass and wood floors and a very confusing layout of books!)

2600 sovereigns then?

so 7.322 grams x 2600 = 19037.2g / 31.1 = 612 t.oz gold

= £562,546 todays money

is this right

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In 1880 it cost 6d for a loaf of bread or half a days pay for a labourer.

Now it costs 80p to 1.30 for a loaf or about 1 seventieth of NMW.

...all figures off the top of head but you get the idea.

We're now much better off as long as we live in tents.

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In 1880 it cost 6d for a loaf of bread or half a days pay for a labourer.

Now it costs 80p to 1.30 for a loaf or about 1 seventieth of NMW.

...all figures off the top of head but you get the idea.

We're now much better off as long as we live in tents.

Too true. I've been reading a book about rural life in Devon in the 20s. The guys working on the Earl's estate would get two days off a year, Good Friday and Xmas Day. They worked every day of the week except Saturday afternoons. As for the Idea of home ownership....well, the stuff of fantasy. It really ain't that bad today.

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The measuring worth site came up with this:

In 2008, £2600 0s 0d from 1880 is worth:

£193,000.00 using the retail price index

£1,390,000.00 using average earnings

So it was a lot cheaper to build than refurb.

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2600 sovereigns then?

so 7.322 grams x 2600 = 19037.2g / 31.1 = 612 t.oz gold

= £562,546 todays money

is this right

Very good p.p., but your working is unnecessarily long, so I have to dock some marks.

Could just times the price of a sovereign by 2600:

£223 x 2600

= £579,800

I used the sale price, if I use spot it would be:

£206 x 2600

= £535,600

In short though, 1880's pound has been devalued by over 200 times thanks to money printing. For those that don't know, a sov was the original 1 pound, back in the day.

CPI just in today, up to 4.5%. Just ignore it, trust the paper! :lol:

Edited by General Congreve

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Very good p.p., but your working is unnecessarily long, so I have to dock some marks.

Could just times the price of a sovereign by 2600:

£223 x 2600

= £579,800

In short though, 1880's pound has been devalued by over 200 times thanks to money printing. For those that don't know, as sov was the original 1 pound, back in the day.

CPI just in today, up to 4.5%. Just ignore it, trust the paper! :lol:

lol

my excuse is that i was working it out according to gold price (i.e gold content) and not the sovereign price

btw, as we are going down this route of re-valuing things in todays pounds, someone sooner or later is going to say about property being the best investment over the long-term! (ducks for cover!)

Edited by p.p.

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lol

my excuse is that i was working it out according to gold price (i.e gold content) and not the sovereign price

btw, as we are going down this route of re-valuing things in todays pounds, someone sooner or later is going to say about property being the best investment over the long-term! (ducks for cover!)

If it's any consolation p.p., I love the avatar, although sometimes it is difficult for me to look at it, as it reminds me of the 160 hours of my life that Fallout3 hoovered up. Just glad there isn't an 'hours of life wasted' gauge on HPC! :o

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Very good p.p., but your working is unnecessarily long, so I have to dock some marks.

Could just times the price of a sovereign by 2600:

£223 x 2600

= £579,800

I used the sale price, if I use spot it would be:

£206 x 2600

= £535,600

In short though, 1880's pound has been devalued by over 200 times thanks to money printing. For those that don't know, a sov was the original 1 pound, back in the day.

CPI just in today, up to 4.5%. Just ignore it, trust the paper! :lol:

But 2,600 * (1.05) ^ 130 = 1,477,686 or 2.76x the change in the spot price.

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But 2,600 * (1.05) ^ 130 = 1,477,686 or 2.76x the change in the spot price.

OK - i admit it - i'm out of my depth here

can you break that down for a simpleton like me please

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But 2,600 * (1.05) ^ 130 = 1,477,686 or 2.76x the change in the spot price.

Well, you're making some assumptions there. Firstly that we've had consistent 5% per annum inflation since 1880. In fact, we had no inflation until we went off the gold standard during WW1 so we could print money to pay for the war. Since then I'm pretty sure inflation has been over 5% per annum in more years than it was under it.

Having said all that, I would agree that the gold price is artificially lower than it should be (thanks to artificial instruments like paper gold) and that 2.76 times higher than today's prices would start to redress the balance towards where it should be.

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OK - i admit it - i'm out of my depth here

can you break that down for a simpleton like me please

He means:

2600 pounds x 1.05 (5% inflation) to the power of 130 (years).

See my previous post as to why he has made assumptions with this calculation. But I agree that the gold price is lower than it should be now relative to fiat debasement, otherwise I wouldn't be invested for the future.

Edited by General Congreve

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He means:

2600 pounds x 1.05 (5% inflation) to the power of 130 (years).

See my previous post as to why he has made assumptions with this calculation. But I agree that the gold price is lower than it should be now relative to fiat debasement, otherwise I wouldn't be invested for the future.

5% is just an average return on alternate investments since 1880 that I plucked out of the air. It could be stocks, bonds, houses etc etc.

Based on your numbers, gold has returned a nominal 4.18% since 1880 which isn't exactly stellar which could either mean that it is a lousy investment (even if it is a good insurance policy) or that it is way too cheap at current prices.

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But what you are not taking into account is the quality of the food has deteriated with the introduction of pesticides and fertilsers with lower vitamin and mineral content.

Just look at meat today, unless its organic most meat will have antibiotics in which causing bloating and reduces the natural flora of the stomach which inturn forces you to spend money on probiotics.

Compare organic food to the cost of food back then is probably a more accurate like for like measurement imo.

Really??? In Victorian times people used to adulterate food with anything that didn't cause instant death - and that only because it was bad for repeat business! One reason the whole brands industry got off the ground was because there was a demand from people to know what they were eating. Most Victorians didn't get their milk from cows whose names they knew, they got it from a vendor of dubious honesty and worse hygiene. Just one of the reasons infant mortality was so high......

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But what you are not taking into account is the quality of the food has deteriated with the introduction of pesticides and fertilsers with lower vitamin and mineral content.

Just look at meat today, unless its organic most meat will have antibiotics in which causing bloating and reduces the natural flora of the stomach which inturn forces you to spend money on probiotics.

Compare organic food to the cost of food back then is probably a more accurate like for like measurement imo.

Tesco organic wholemeal @98p? I think I've covered that!

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Very good p.p., but your working is unnecessarily long, so I have to dock some marks.

Could just times the price of a sovereign by 2600:

£223 x 2600

= £579,800

I used the sale price, if I use spot it would be:

£206 x 2600

= £535,600

In short though, 1880's pound has been devalued by over 200 times thanks to money printing. For those that don't know, a sov was the original 1 pound, back in the day.

CPI just in today, up to 4.5%. Just ignore it, trust the paper! :lol:

Nope.

according to BoE who measure these things, the devaluation is 93 times..

£2600 is now worth £243,929.78. Inflation average: 3.5%

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/inflation/calculator/flash/index.htm

See my previous post as to why he has made assumptions with this calculation. But I agree that the gold price is lower than it should be now relative to fiat debasement, otherwise I wouldn't be invested for the future.

So a sovereign is now worth £226, well inflation adjusted it should be worth £93. So Gold is over valued by 143%

Edited by Peter Hun

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Nope.

according to BoE who measure these things, the devaluation is 93 times..

£2600 is now worth £243,929.78. Inflation average: 3.5%

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/inflation/calculator/flash/index.htm

So a sovereign is now worth £226, well inflation adjusted it should be worth £93. So Gold is over valued by 143%

the cost of the house in 1880 was 2600 pounds i.e. 2600 sovereigns

whether you are pro, anti or neutral gold, you must avoid comparing apples with oranges

therefore, it makes sense to equate the price in 1880 to the currency then and adjust for today

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Really??? In Victorian times people used to adulterate food with anything that didn't cause instant death - and that only because it was bad for repeat business! One reason the whole brands industry got off the ground was because there was a demand from people to know what they were eating. Most Victorians didn't get their milk from cows whose names they knew, they got it from a vendor of dubious honesty and worse hygiene. Just one of the reasons infant mortality was so high......

my thoughts too

food is of an excellent standard these days, non organic or otherwise

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the cost of the house in 1880 was 2600 pounds i.e. 2600 sovereigns

whether you are pro, anti or neutral gold, you must avoid comparing apples with oranges

therefore, it makes sense to equate the price in 1880 to the currency then and adjust for today

I don't know what you are talking about. I am simply pointing out that the inflation adjusted price of gold is £93 per oz. Gold is supposed to be a universal standard, always reflecting 'true' worth is it not?

The obvious fact is that houses have increase in value far more than gold, if this house is now worth £2.5million. However Gold has outpaced inflation.

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I don't know what you are talking about. I am simply pointing out that the inflation adjusted price of gold is £93 per oz. Gold is supposed to be a universal standard, always reflecting 'true' worth is it not?

The obvious fact is that houses have increase in value far more than gold, if this house is now worth £2.5million. However Gold has outpaced inflation.

i made the point about property on the first page yesterday - do keep up

Edit - removed error

Edited by p.p.

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Built in 1880 at a cost of £2,600, Failsworth Town Hall

and refurb recently for £2.2M!

Seems about right.

Clapham common bandstand was built for about £1000 in 1890 and refurbished recently for a cost of £1million.

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If Failsworth Town Hall was built at a cost of £2,600 in 1880, what was the average house price in that area then?

About £110?

What did house prices do from 1880 to 1949 in Failsworth? Rise from £110 to around £1,100 in 1949?

Got an old 1999 newspaper clipping with some comparisons between investments and house prices between 1949 to 1999. Attached..

£1,400 invested in Glaxo Wellcome in 1949 would have been worth approximately £6.3 million in 1999. £1,400 cash would have buying power of £84 in 1999.

Of course Gordon sold off lots of UK gold just after 1999 and the value has since soared away multiple times to 2007, then again to 2011..

1999 statement

During the past 50 years, average house prices in Britain have risen 3,500 percent, according to the Nationwide Building Society.

The lesson for me is it's about being in the right class of investment at the right time. Keeping cash on deposit or even hidden away out the system for a couple of years now might not be as stupid a course of action as it would have been from 1949 onwards, or avoiding baskets of shares until seeing value. Few people wanted to be in gold in 1999 on strength of how badly it had performed 1949 to 1999, but wouldn't have said no to investing in it 1999 to 2011 compared to many other investments now.

pension_comparestuff1a.jpg

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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