Mcdonalds Replacing Humans With Terminals

[Wooden Top]

Used one of these machines in Valencia. Spent 10 minutes trying to order some plain food on it so I wouldn't have to try and speak Spanish. Machine messed up at the end when it came to payment so ended up having to queue anyway. Just like the self serve in supermarkets, crap.

"unexpected item in baggage area". Thief in the shop!

[Timak]

Exactly. Automation is being painted in this thread like a bad thing, as if us all going back to subsistence farming would be a good thing as then no-one is unemployed.

Sure the day the new machine is installed, the burger-server is out of a job. But why are there not thousands upon thousands of unemployed flint knappers, telegram deliverers and blacksmiths in Britain? Answer - because as time goes on people stop training to do obsolete jobs and learn new ones.

But you speak as if relentless progress and work is the only way to live. Why shouldn't we take advantage of the improvements to enjoy more luxury. It wasn't that long ago that a 7 day working week was standard, then 6 days, then 5 days. Logically 4 is the next step.

A 4 day working week wouldn't make that much difference to the output of the country if the 20% currently unemployed were taken on to ensure a 5 day working week still existed (e.g. businesses operate 5 days a week but each staff member only worked 4)

By the way every time the working week was reduced the already hugely rich predicted dire consequences.

So my socialist solution for unemployment is a 4 day working week and a tax regime that punishes hugely second home ownership.

[Britney's Piers]

Besides, it's a pointless, crappy job. There are better things to do with your time that take burger orders! This is more efficient for everyone. Ultimately, it means people will have more time and money to spend on other, more useful things and services... which is where said burger till operators will end up instead.

Well that's the theory we keep hearing, over and over again, but never transpires. Real wages have been falling for decades and I don't know anyone who had much time unless they are on the dole. The burger flippers will go on the dole with the other 20% of youth unemployed, not into these fantasy service jobs we keep hearing about.

[Lagarde's Drift]

black holes

I'd go all in every time.

There's my coat!

[Injin]

It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

it's the same as private rentiers doing it, only when the state does it, becomes unavoidable.

Extracting rent and then being able to spend it back in exchange for services is very different. In fact, it just shows what a great idea the rentiers are on to - it's money for old rope and a great way to buy more services with little effort.

If rentiers gave it back in charity, then you would be on to something. But they don't. So you're not.

Poor show, Injin.

The state will never give to charity.

You are looking at two identical situations and deciding one of them will somehow be magically different. Sigh.

[winkie]

it's the same as private rentiers doing it, only when the state does it, becomes unavoidable.

The illusive injin, out of interest, do you rent, own, or buy?....be honest about it, it will paint a clearer picture.

Edit to say: I don't expect an honest answer.

Edited May 16, 2011 by winkie

[alexw]

The illusive injin, out of interest, do you rent, own, or buy?....be honest about it, it will paint a clearer picture.

Edit to say: I don't expect an honest answer.

You expect an answer from injun to make things clearer??

[winkie]

You expect an answer from injun to make things clearer??

No, but one can only but try.....

[Injin]

You expect an answer from injun to make things clearer??

He also expect me to lie.

['Bart']

And 3-4 seconds queuing feel more like 30 minutes to me.

It certainly does in McDonald's.

[Traktion]

it's the same as private rentiers doing it, only when the state does it, becomes unavoidable.

The state will never give to charity.

You are looking at two identical situations and deciding one of them will somehow be magically different. Sigh.

What are benefits then?

I can accept that there is waste and malinvestment, but money is not just taken by the few and spent on their consumption. Our political system simply isn't that corrupted.

They are not identical situations by a long shot.

[winkie]

He also expect me to lie.

... No, I am sure if you did choose to answer it would be a truthful answer.....correction: I don't expect an answer to the question.

[miko]

Oh dear.

Drrr

['Bart']

No, but one can only but try.....

Many have tried before. He's worn them all down.

There's a reason Injin has 35,000+ posts.

Whenever he posts some bit of discombobulated nonsense I smile, nod sagely and don't try to correct him.

It benefits my blood pressure if nothing else.

A debate with Injin? "Just Say No".

[Traktion]

Well that's the theory we keep hearing, over and over again, but never transpires. Real wages have been falling for decades and I don't know anyone who had much time unless they are on the dole. The burger flippers will go on the dole with the other 20% of youth unemployed, not into these fantasy service jobs we keep hearing about.

Globally, there are far fewer people in poverty. That we haven't see all the benefits is to only look at half of the picture.

Nationally, decades of HPI and laws which support rentiers (of land, money and other stripes), has reduced the real median wages and widened the wealth gap. The wealthy have benefited at the expense of everyone else.

[scottbeard]

But you speak as if relentless progress and work is the only way to live. Why shouldn't we take advantage of the improvements to enjoy more luxury.

...

A 4 day working week wouldn't make that much difference to the output of the country if the 20% currently unemployed were taken on to ensure a 5 day working week still existed

I don't think people want to work 4 days, enjoy luxury on 3 or they would be doing it. What they prefer to do is work 5 days, enjoy super luxury on 2.

Sure we can all work 4 days, but then there is only 4/5ths the stuff to share out compared to us all (including the current unemployed) working 5 days. You can't all have an iphone and still work 4 days a week. Faced with 5 days or no iphone, most people choose 5 days.

Also, I don't think your idea works in practice without a lot of re-training. If we put doctors on a 4 day week we can't just plug the gap with school dropouts or unemployed shipbuilders. Are there even enough people with the right intelligence etc to even plug the gap??

[miko]

People keep talking about work and jobs as if it's a finite thing. In fact there is always something useful that a person can be doing - they just may need the appropriate training, location change or incentive to do it.

.

Dissagree

The economy need's to be able to employ them , whether that is in a job provided by a company or in self employment doing something ( which in many cases today is not always useful ) which the economy can pay them to do.

Appropriate training , the ability to change location and incentives have not changed since the 60's when we had full employment to now when we have 8+ million adults without a full time job. What has changed is that we need less labour and the way the current system is set up and probably in any way that it is set up there is only a finite amount of work and jobs. Untill the Govenment understand that we will stay in the same position that we are in today.

[mfp123]

Dissagree

The economy need's to be able to employ them , whether that is in a job provided by a company or in self employment doing something ( which in many cases today is not always useful ) which the economy can pay them to do.

Appropriate training , the ability to change location and incentives have not changed since the 60's when we had full employment to now when we have 8+ million adults without a full time job. What has changed is that we need less labour and the way the current system is set up and probably in any way that it is set up there is only a finite amount of work and jobs. Untill the Govenment understand that we will stay in the same position that we are in today.

there is not a finite amount of work and jobs. as people, we decide what we want and what we need, and on that basis alone, work and jobs are variable. we are not in a computer system, an economy is made up of people doing stuff for other people.

if apple brings out a new ipad and everyone wants ipads, a new industry is born. technology increase the efficeincy of the economy so you have to do less work.

the only issue is that currently, work determines your allocation of resources within the economy, and so a new method of how you allocate someones claim on resources would be needed.

[miko]

I don't think people want to work 4 days, enjoy luxury on 3 or they would be doing it. What they prefer to do is work 5 days, enjoy super luxury on 2.

Sure we can all work 4 days, but then there is only 4/5ths the stuff to share out compared to us all (including the current unemployed) working 5 days. You can't all have an iphone and still work 4 days a week. Faced with 5 days or no iphone, most people choose 5 days.

Also, I don't think your idea works in practice without a lot of re-training. If we put doctors on a 4 day week we can't just plug the gap with school dropouts or unemployed shipbuilders. Are there even enough people with the right intelligence etc to even plug the gap??

FFs are you for real

Read some history they came out with the same load of crap when people tried to stop kids going down the mines or working 16 hour days in the mills. They came out with the same crap again after WW2 when the unions demanded the 40 hour week , paid holidays and sick pay . Just 25 short years later they had the lot . During that 25 years the standards of living increased as the working week was cut.

31 years ago they cut the working week for the last time from 40 to 39 hours some got that cut some did not . Today after 31 years without another cut for many the working week is rising ( forced unpaid overtime ) unemployment is rising and standards of living are falling , all this is happening with the benefit of computers , robots and faster quicker processess for manufacturing.

Cut the working week.

[miko]

there is not a finite amount of work and jobs. as people, we decide what we want and what we need, and on that basis alone, work and jobs are variable. we are not in a computer system, an economy is made up of people doing stuff for other people.

if apple brings out a new ipad and everyone wants ipads, a new industry is born. technology increase the efficeincy of the economy so you have to do less work.

the only issue is that currently, work determines your allocation of resources within the economy, and so a new method of how you allocate someones claim on resources would be needed.

At present there is a finite amount of work that the economy is willing to pay for . Yes we could have people walking down the streets and counting the amout of dog shit and logging it's colour and texture and then someone else following them down the steet and filling in 20 sheets of ticked boxes answering questions about the dog shit and the dog shit checker . However the economy is not prepared to pay for dog shit checkers . The economy is also not prepared to pay for everyone to have a job so jobs are finite .

Your only issue is that currently work determines your allocation of resources within the economy WRONG , Millions of people are claiming resources without working , either form pensions, benefits, luck, fraud , living on savings or money handed down the generations . That has always happened the only problem now is that due to less and less work needed that the economy will pay for there are more and more people without work but the other ways of gaining resources are not going to be enough to cover the shortfall.

[Number79]

People keep talking about work and jobs as if it's a finite thing. In fact there is always something useful that a person can be doing - they just may need the appropriate training, location change or incentive to do it.

That hasnt been true since the agricultural revolution and probably wont be true again until the oil runs out and there is a need for mass labour.

There are always useful things that someone can do but people dont want to be useful they want to be paid.

[scottbeard]

for many the working week is rising ( forced unpaid overtime ) unemployment is rising and standards of living are falling , all this is happening with the benefit of computers , robots and faster quicker processess for manufacturing.

Cut the working week.

You're right that we COULD cut the working week. I may be wrong but I'm still not sure everyone would want it, and it would be interesting to know. If you did a poll asking people would they rather have an extra day off and a 20% pay cut, what would the result be?

It's totally different to kids down the mines, where obviously the kids would have voted no. It's just no-one gave them a choice.

My feeling is that people's consumer and medical demands are now rising faster than technology is improving, whereas in the 1960s it was the other way round. That's why people are having to work harder even though we have better technology.

The poster above put it well:

there is not a finite amount of work and jobs. as people, we decide what we want and what we need, and on that basis alone, work and jobs are variable. we are not in a computer system, an economy is made up of people doing stuff for other people.

[ccc]

FFs are you for real

Read some history they came out with the same load of crap when people tried to stop kids going down the mines or working 16 hour days in the mills. They came out with the same crap again after WW2 when the unions demanded the 40 hour week , paid holidays and sick pay . Just 25 short years later they had the lot . During that 25 years the standards of living increased as the working week was cut.

31 years ago they cut the working week for the last time from 40 to 39 hours some got that cut some did not . Today after 31 years without another cut for many the working week is rising ( forced unpaid overtime ) unemployment is rising and standards of living are falling , all this is happening with the benefit of computers , robots and faster quicker processess for manufacturing.

Cut the working week.

I would agree. Or at least make it socially acceptable rather than the exception.

[miko]

You're right that we COULD cut the working week. I may be wrong but I'm still not sure everyone would want it, and it would be interesting to know. If you did a poll asking people would they rather have an extra day off and a 20% pay cut, what would the result be?

As I said the working week was cut and as the working week was cut standards of living improved they did not go down but up

The same thing can happen again but we have been led to beleive that if we enjoy a cut in the working week we will have to pay for it with a cut in our standard of living . So that keeps many on the tread mill of the five day week , while millions have fallen by the wayside .

To keep the pretence up the powers that be i.e. govenment , media and the guy next door moaning about the guy up the road who does not work tell us in many different ways about the lazy feckless who should be working like us in order to keep us in our place.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Tomorrow's World said you can spread butter on a cd and still listen to it. I'm still waiting for my replacement.

I think it was jam