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Pro-Cuts Activists To Rally Against Debt - London Tomorrow

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/13/pro-cuts-rally-against-debt

Hundreds of pro-cuts activists are expected to descend on Westminster on Saturday to "rally against debt", in the first sign of a radical Tea Party-style mass movement to challenge the anti-cuts lobby.

The protest will be attended by an alliance of rightwing and libertarian activists including members of the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), the anti-Europe UK Independence party and the Freedom Association, a libertarian pressure group set up by Norris McWhirter, better known for co-founding the Guinness Book of Records.

More than 1,000 people have indicated online that they plan to attend and many said they believed the government was not cutting public spending deeply enough. The Conservative MPs Priti Patel and Bill Cash and the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, are due to make speeches, and Toby Young, the broadcaster and free school pioneer, said he would attend.

........

"We are into freedom, small government, independence of the individual and low tax and low spending," said Annabelle Fuller, a former assistant to Farage, who initiated the rally after being "completely appalled" by the TUC's March for the Alternative, which attracted 500,000 people to London in March. "I was incredibly frustrated that the debate was about whether you could cope with the cuts or not because actually there are people happy with this policy and we want more."

Although by comparison, the turkey march attracted more people.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/13/pro-cuts-rally-against-debt

Although by comparison, the turkey march attracted more people.

Thank you for posting this.

It seems to have had little or no publicity as I was unaware of it.

It does not look AFAIK that there are really meaningful cuts as yet anyway in most South places, just talk of it.

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The protest will be attended by an alliance of rightwing and libertarian activists

Nutters of the world unite.

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I'm amazed this is in the guardian, I have to hand them the stick of impartiality for this!

I'd love to attend this, but I'm busy decorating. I wonder how many of the silent majority will attend?

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Toby Young will be attending.

Presumably a different Toby Young then the one demanding tax payers money to fund his school?

Or is taking tax payers money only evil when it is public employees spending it?

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Pathetic cuts with no other changes to the system that got us in this mess in the first place.

It's like arguing about removing one grain of salt from a meal loaded with arsenic.

I wonder what would happen if any government that finished its term without balancing the books* was banned from contesting the next election.

* i.e. debt must be the same or reduced from whatever they inherited...

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Nutters of the world unite.

Freedom Association (McWhirter)

F.A. = Feck-All

the employee at Guinness who recommended them to Sir Hugh Beaver.

After an interview in which the Guinness directors enjoyed testing the

twins' knowledge of records and unusual facts, the brothers agreed to

start work on the book that would become The Guinness Book of Records in 1954.The Observer (4 September 1977)

quoted General Sir Walter Walker to the effect that he had set up Unison with Ross McWhirter

at the invitation of G. K.Young, ex Deputy Director of MI6. Young "had

come to him on the recommendation of Field Marshall Sir Gerald Templer",

something Sir Walter has confirmed recently to the authors.

Larkin correctly identifies the anti-communist, anti-subversion alliance formed by elements within Whitehall and a section of the Tory Party but oversimplifies it and makes many errors of detail. For example, on p.182 he writes of the 'right wing of the British establishment (Airey Neave, Ross McWhirter, Ian Gow and Colonel Peter Brush in particular) were pushing for all out war against the IRA rather than this "appeasement".' Did Peter Brush amount to anything outside Northern Ireland? Was McWhirter in 'the establishment'?

(Mi6-you can see the connection why Ross Mcwhirter got assassinated by the Irish)

Although Martell's empire folded in the mid-sixties (demonstrating that his actual support was smaller than he always said), he pops up again in 1977 with Lady Birdwood and Donald Bennett in Self Help, another strike-breaking, anti-union, newspaper printing outfit, allegedly financed by Ross McWhirter. He is currently a 'consultant' to Charles Forte. It was Martell's misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, pursuing his anti-union, anti-socialist aims at a point when it had become deeply unfashionable on the right to be openly right-wing.

The main people behind MMU appear to be Julian Lewis and the ubiquitous Lord Chalfont (The Independent November 11 1986). Lewis, one of the founders of the Coalition for Peace Through Security, is a member of something called Policy Research Associates, with Chalfont and Norris McWhirter said to be its patrons. (Daily Telegraph 19 November 1986). MMU seems to have come out of Policy Research Associates. Funds for MMU were raised by Sir Peter Tennant. His Who's Who entry makes interesting reading. Institute for the Study of Terrorism

The knobs ARE the terrorists - like I told you before!

Edited by erranta

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I see some of the comments are pretty predictable.

Shame is called a Pro Cuts March as people take this as sack people.

Unfortunately only a few people (germans?) people seem to understand that since everyone has some money inflation is the nastiest tax of all.

Also many do not understand the inherent inefficiency of paying money > to a government who > give you money back in tax credits. Let alone the almost criminal act of taking loans out against public property/tax revenue to give to private banks (there should have been a referendum of this rather then AV). The less money they have the less damage they can do in many cases.

A week or so someone used the Olympics as a really good example where the public pay and then as a reward they get a limited number of expensive tickets as a thank you.

If i had any hair I would pull it out when I hear another person tell me the cuts are impacting growth and are the reason for the slowdown....********. The reason for the slowdown is that we are still in the shit with bills/tax from 2007 and income thats very much 2011 (down) until its a no brainer to start a new business people are not going to do it en masse.

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Morons.

Get tax cuts first, then cut services.

Otherwise it'll be service cuts and more cash handed to ravy davy and his gravy train chums via the taxman.

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Good on em I say. Let them Shout Spite.

Spout shite you mean?

So it's a "rally against debt". I'm assuming these people want less government debt? In that case they must want more private debt, unless of course, they are completely oblivious to the fact that 97% of the money in circulation is debt and new money is created as debt.

I'm guessing most of these people are puffed up little self-congratulatory turds who consider themselves "self made". And now they are going to march, and show the minority of people out there who actually understand what money is, how thick they really are.

Of course, it wouldn't occur to them that their personal debt free independence is a direct result of a majority up to their necks in debt.

Yeah, cheer them on retards!

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Spout shite you mean?

So it's a "rally against debt". I'm assuming these people want less government debt? In that case they must want more private debt, unless of course, they are completely oblivious to the fact that 97% of the money in circulation is debt and new money is created as debt.

I'm guessing most of these people are puffed up little self-congratulatory turds who consider themselves "self made". And now they are going to march, and show the minority of people out there who actually understand what money is, how thick they really are.

Of course, it wouldn't occur to them that their personal debt free independence is a direct result of a majority up to their necks in debt.

Yeah, cheer them on retards!

You are frothing with incoherence.

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You are frothing with incoherence.

Nah he's spot on.

There is no systemic reform in begging for other slaves to be punished.

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The TPA, which calls for low tax and spending and has donors in common with the Conservative party, will bring its lorry-mounted debt clock, which constantly updates the national debt. It has urged its 55,000 supporters to turn out, citing three reasons: the "immorality" of living beyond our means and passing on debt to the next generation; taxes should pay for services, not debt interest; and UK taxpayers should not have to pay for bailouts of failing eurozone countries.

The pro-cuts activists will include Mark Littlewood, the former Lib Dem spokesman and now director of the Institute for Economic Affairs free-market thinktank, and Ruth Lea, the high-profile economist.

Littlewood said: "There seems to be a belief that the only reason we are in these problems is the behaviour of a few bankers in 2008, but it is down to collective greed of the voting population of this country. We need considerably more cuts. Public spending is out of control. This isn't a government-sponsored rally by any means. Even if their cuts were carried through in full they will not solve this huge dead weight of debt."

He said it was morally wrong to expect future generations to pay off the debt. Anti-cuts activists are understood to be considering mounting informal counter-demonstrations.

Hear, hear!

It's disgusting that some public sector workers would rather have a pay rise today, than a pay freeze and a cap on recruiting. The selfishness holds no bounds!

Every pound borrowed has to be repaid (or defaulted/printed away). If the current generation want yet more borrowing, then clearly it is the next generation who will get the bill. Will they be happy? Hell no! Will they be pleased that 500,000 people marched to attempt to indebt them even further? I suspect it will make them feel rather sick!

I have time for an argument about high vs low tax/spend, but public borrowing is immoral*, especially at the dizzy heights of today's public borrowing.

Additionally, I notice that someone in the Guardian comments said that it will result in private debt increasing instead and this being a bad thing. They fail to realise that private debt is just that - private to the individual. If someone wants to spend their future before it arrives, that's up to them. If they die before it is repaid, then the debt gets written off (or rather, the bank takes a hit) - Their kids don't get forced to repay it, unlike with public debt!.

Finally, as the more wealthy tend to buy gilts, government borrowing actually feeds the rich (due to practically risk free, interest on repayment). This will never decrease the divide between the rich and the poor - quite the opposite.

It should be put into law that the budget is balanced over a term, with repercussions for the offending party if they don't. Perhaps the politicians could get their salaries docked... that would soon focus their minds on the books!

P.S. It is funny to read the mouth frothing comments at the Guardian. They sound like spoilt school kids who are going to have their toys confiscated!

* If you want something paid for today, then tax enough today for it. Don't buy it today and give the bill to the unborn. Arguably, it's against human rights to be born into debt bondage.

Edited by Traktion

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Nutters of the world unite.

Would be a turn up if we saw them there..

I'm in favour.. only because the argument for less government is just as good, if not better than the argument for more government (IMHO).

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Come on, let's hear it.

I don't see the benefit of the Government assuming they can issue debt as and when they like. I'd prefer it if redemptions were not replaced with fresh issues, and the Government lived according to its means, which ought to be substantially curtailed to boot. Personal taxes ought to be slashed, and spending lowered. A look at the speaker list for this event suggests it will be of no use whatsoever, mind.

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They're making an economic point here not a moral one. The private and public sectors are mirror images of each other with the release valve being external trade and balancing capital flows. Basically, if we exclude that release valve, the public sector debt is the mirror image of private sector wealth...if you don't have an increase in public sector debt then you push that somewhere else...onto the private sector.

So, the other things to consider are the imbalances between people in the private sector - private debt holding and deposits - and also our massive cumulated trade imbalance which is held on both our private and public sector balance sheets.

I've read you argue that many times. When you say "private and public sectors are mirror images of each other" presumably you mean in terms of debt/savings? Could you explain in more detail the interaction between the four or point to a summary somewhere? I'd like to understand better

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Spout shite you mean?

So it's a "rally against debt". I'm assuming these people want less government debt? In that case they must want more private debt, unless of course, they are completely oblivious to the fact that 97% of the money in circulation is debt and new money is created as debt.

I'm guessing most of these people are puffed up little self-congratulatory turds who consider themselves "self made". And now they are going to march, and show the minority of people out there who actually understand what money is, how thick they really are.

Of course, it wouldn't occur to them that their personal debt free independence is a direct result of a majority up to their necks in debt.

Yeah, cheer them on retards!

It seemed pretty clear to me that it was about public debt.

Additionally, if public debt was cut and people hoarded something other than IOUs in the bank, the amount of money in the economy would indeed fall. However, what they have spent said money on, would be hoarded instead. If everyone did this, while net debtors paid down their debt, this would result in less credit money.

Would this be good or bad? It depends how you look at it; it's a liquidity/risk preference. In other words, hoarding a pile of 'things' may be considered less risky, but it's harder to spend said 'stuff' unless others want to accept it. Hoarding stuff instead of credit money is a sign of people not trusting one another (via the conduit of the bank) - they expect people, and therefore the banks, to not repay their (i.e. deposits) loans. If no one trusted one another, there would be no credit money, but something else would become money instead - what this would be would depend on the market and, tbh, I don't think credit money is going to die any time soon anyway. Nor should it, as long as people understand what it is*.

If people want to hold on to 'stuff' rather than credit money, I have no problem with that. I have no problem with the reverse either, as long as depositors and banks are exposed to the obvious risks (of default). What I resent is the government borrowing on behalf of people who are unable to say 'no' due to being too young or unborn.

* Which most people don't currently and bailing out the banks and guaranteeing all deposits isn't helping to demonstrate this either. However, I can understand the desire to prevent panic, as everyone switches from credit money to stuff for their savings. It should never have been allowed to get so far out of hand, but we are where we are...

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Spout shite you mean?

So it's a "rally against debt". I'm assuming these people want less government debt? In that case they must want more private debt, unless of course, they are completely oblivious to the fact that 97% of the money in circulation is debt and new money is created as debt.

I'm guessing most of these people are puffed up little self-congratulatory turds who consider themselves "self made". And now they are going to march, and show the minority of people out there who actually understand what money is, how thick they really are.

Of course, it wouldn't occur to them that their personal debt free independence is a direct result of a majority up to their necks in debt.

Yeah, cheer them on retards!

:lol::lol:

Plenty of them around.

Protest against debt? As you say, it seems obvious that they know nothing about what they’re actually protesting against.

At least they getting off their ar5e3 and making a mockery of themselves in public, instead of shouting behind the protection of an anonymous internet forum.

Will be interesting to see if the agent provocateurs /useful idiots will also be attending this time.

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  • 309 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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