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South Yorkshire Fire Service - Volvo Cars Swapped For Skodas To Save On Fleet Costs

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http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/volvo_cars_swapped_for_skodas_to_save_on_fleet_costs_1_3364583

FIRE service managers in South Yorkshire are to have their Volvo cars replaced with Skodas because of concerns over the cost of the fleet.

Fire officers who have to attend emergency incidents using blue lights were given Volvos in 2007 and the vehicles are now coming up to their replacement date.

Although bosses stress the fleet was “sourced at extremely competitive prices” they fear there could be some concerns over the use of Volvos when the fire service has is facing massive Government funding cuts.

They have now decided to replace Volvos with Skodas, which will have a similar specification but which bosses believe will be seen as better value for money by the public.

Yet again more money wasted, where Volvo's really necessary? It would appear cheaper alternatives are acceptable but no when public money is available no expense is spared.

Still at least it's not come out of my council tax... :ph34r:

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http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/volvo_cars_swapped_for_skodas_to_save_on_fleet_costs_1_3364583

Yet again more money wasted, where Volvo's really necessary? It would appear cheaper alternatives are acceptable but no when public money is available no expense is spared.

Still at least it's not come out of my council tax... :ph34r:

You seem to be missing the point. There is nothing to say that Skodas are cost less just that the public perceive them to be cheaper.

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You seem to be missing the point. There is nothing to say that Skodas are cost less just that the public perceive them to be cheaper.

Sorry ?

The fire service will almost certainly use the Octavia if going with Skoda (I guess the estate) which lists at around 15-20k and can be bought privately for around 12-18k new. Cheapest Volvo estate lists at 21-26k and is considerably smaller than the Octavia, a comparable model (for space V70) is more like 26-35k. Factor in the low running costs of the new VW source common rail diesels (30 quid a year road tax) in the Skoda and I reckon running costs over 3 years are probably 30-40% less than for a Volvo.

What was your point ?

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Sorry ?

The fire service will almost certainly use the Octavia if going with Skoda (I guess the estate) which lists at around 15-20k and can be bought privately for around 12-18k new. Cheapest Volvo estate lists at 21-26k and is considerably smaller than the Octavia, a comparable model (for space V70) is more like 26-35k. Factor in the low running costs of the new VW source common rail diesels (30 quid a year road tax) in the Skoda and I reckon running costs over 3 years are probably 30-40% less than for a Volvo.

What was your point ?

I think the previous poster was taking his lead from the quote in the article:

They have now decided to replace Volvos with Skodas, which will have a similar specification but which bosses believe will be seen as better value for money by the public.

Surely the tax paid is irrelevant in the overall running costs (although every little helps). Depreciation is easily the biggest cost over three years, unless mega-miles are being done. I agree with you that the Skodas ought to be cheaper overall though. Perhaps they will use the Superb though, comparable to the V70?

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What was your point ?

I think the point is that buying a fleet and awarding a maintenance contract, particularly for non-standard vehicles, has got nothing to do with list price or how much it usually costs to run a single car.

More to do with how much the manufacturer wants the contract, really.

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More to do with how much the manufacturer wants the contract, really.

Skoda and Hyundai fleet sales are keener than most IME. I think it's highly unlikely that Yorkshire fire service is buying beer on a champagne budget with this choice.

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I think the previous poster was taking his lead from the quote in the article:

mmm... I think I got out of the wrong side of bed this morning...

Surely the tax paid is irrelevant in the overall running costs (although every little helps). Depreciation is easily the biggest cost over three years, unless mega-miles are being done. I agree with you that the Skodas ought to be cheaper overall though. Perhaps they will use the Superb though, comparable to the V70?

I am sure the Skodas will be significantly cheaper, and have looked into leasing costs in the Octavia class myself for my own car (self employed, sole-trader). A quick look on the net shows that they have been using the V50 (link below), so running costs of around 50p/mile for the first three years (admittedly based on 12k miles/pa, which may well be exceeeded). Comparable Octavias (which are quite a bit bigger) are 15-20% less, and Fabia estates (which still have more internal space) are around 20-25% less.

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I am sure the Skodas will be significantly cheaper, and have looked into leasing costs in the Octavia class myself for my own car (self employed, sole-trader). A quick look on the net shows that they have been using the V50 (link below), so running costs of around 50p/mile for the first three years (admittedly based on 12k miles/pa, which may well be exceeeded). Comparable Octavias (which are quite a bit bigger) are 15-20% less, and Fabia estates (which still have more internal space) are around 20-25% less.

Interesting the Fabia has more room.

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I think the point is that buying a fleet and awarding a maintenance contract, particularly for non-standard vehicles, has got nothing to do with list price or how much it usually costs to run a single car.

More to do with how much the manufacturer wants the contract, really.

I am pretty sure that manufacturers still treat fleet leases as a business, and hence still want to make a profit. That would mean a clear link between their lowest price and list price (OK, manufacturing cost). Running costs (certainly fuel, probably tax?) wouldn't be factored in as of course they are met by the final customer, but that doesn't mean the customer wouldn't consider them when choosing which vehicle to run.

The real chance to save would come through economy of scale (increased fleet size), but purchasing across combined regions (or even nationally). Not sure how much this is done, but considering the scale of public sector buying they really should be doing something.

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Interesting the Fabia has more room.

Yeap...

Fabia estate boot = 480 litres (1460 with seats down)

V50 estate boot = 417 litres (1307 with seats down)

Small Volvos and other exec compact estates are all rubbish when you look at the numbers. Another example would be the BMW 3 Series Touring (460/1385), less boot space than a Skoda Fabia estate ! And of course the cheapest 3 Series is still about 7 grand more than the most expensive Fabia (180bhp vRS).

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It's a bit like me saying - if you walked into a Skoda dealership and negotiated about a new car, the final sale price has less to do with the actual list price, more to do with how much the salesman wanted to sell it to you (and how much you wanted to buy it).

Multiply this for a fleet and you get something so different it can almost be a completely different market. A negotiator on behalf of the fire service would not be thinking about savings compared to list price per individual car, when considering the contract.

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Depending on the size of the fleet, you can get 40% off retail prices with some car manufacturers. Will be interesting to see how much discount the fire service get compared to some similar sized fleets run by companies from the same car manufacturer.

Its government though, i.e. crappy procurement, they'll be given negative discounts of 40%. It doesn't matter cus your customers are captive under a monopoly so you can spend whatever you want. Also at a the garage of a mate of the fireservice in exchange for a couple of brown envelopes.

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I would also think they could run the cars for longer than 4 years too. Modern cars should be good for eight years or more. One lot of higher depreciation for an eight year period would be cheaper that two lots of slightly less depreciation.

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It's a bit like me saying - if you walked into a Skoda dealership and negotiated about a new car, the final sale price has less to do with the actual list price, more to do with how much the salesman wanted to sell it to you (and how much you wanted to buy it).

Multiply this for a fleet and you get something so different it can almost be a completely different market. A negotiator on behalf of the fire service would not be thinking about savings compared to list price per individual car, when considering the contract.

Yes... but when I walk into a dealer my target is too go as low as possible, the dealer's target is to stay as high as possible, and the theoretical bottom line in normal circumstances is the trade purchase price paid by the dealer. I think the same applies to the fleet negotiator, except now the bottom line is a more complex number coming from manufacturing costs, predicited maintenance costs, depreciation, etc.

And while I agree that the latter figure is not directly proportional to list price, there is some connection. I can see how a 40k BMW 5 Series may be cheaper to lease that a 37k Citreon C6 which would have obscene depreciation, but in the case of 14k Skoda versus 21k Volvo I think the final cost must almost certainly be less for the Skoda.

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See, you're coming round now. The list price is a figure in the air picked by the manufacturer to represent their balance between profit and attractive headline price. The real price is what is what is negotiated in reality.

Bit like house builders. They all have their list prices.... do you even consider that when negotiating? I know plenty do, ie ooh a 10k discount on this shoebox, must be a bargain! That doesn't mean it's right. The real price is the meeting point between selling pressure and buying power/pressure.

Therefore the fire service will get a better deal depending on how much soda want the contract vs Volvo, considering the set amount of buying power. That of course assumes the cars are identical which they aren't, so another layer of complexity.

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See, you're coming round now. The list price is a figure in the air picked by the manufacturer to represent their balance between profit and attractive headline price. The real price is what is what is negotiated in reality.

Bit like house builders. They all have their list prices.... do you even consider that when negotiating? I know plenty do, ie ooh a 10k discount on this shoebox, must be a bargain! That doesn't mean it's right. The real price is the meeting point between selling pressure and buying power/pressure.

Therefore the fire service will get a better deal depending on how much soda want the contract vs Volvo, considering the set amount of buying power. That of course assumes the cars are identical which they aren't, so another layer of complexity.

Please don't say thing like "see, you're coming round now"

I already admitted to getting out the wrong side of bed and it seems to be winding me up ;)

What you say is right, but I never really thought that differently. I just tried to put numbers to the argument, and as I don't have access to manufacturing costs for either the V50 or the Octavia I could only quote list prices (with discounting info as an attempt to indicate base price). But my point still stands... I am one hundred percent sure that the overall cost to use the Octavia will be lower than for the V50.

And as North Yorks are already using Skoda, South Yorks will have had access to the figures when making the decision.

Edited by ScrewsNutsandBolts

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http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/volvo_cars_swapped_for_skodas_to_save_on_fleet_costs_1_3364583

Yet again more money wasted, where Volvo's really necessary? It would appear cheaper alternatives are acceptable but no when public money is available no expense is spared.

Still at least it's not come out of my council tax... :ph34r:

Aren't Skodas (more reliable version of VW) more expensive than Volvos? If not--its a smart move as the Skoda brand is ranked number 1 in a recent JDPowers report. I was looking for a Skoda 2nd hand but found few for sale and the ones that were on offer were very expensive.

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Not sure why I'm posting so often on thnis thread... but anyway.

Someone seems to have put in an FOI request on the cars that SYFR have been running, and on the last sheet they show that all the cars are sold at auction when they are finished with (as opposed to the appliances which are returned to the leasing company). I guess that means they are buying the cars outright rather than leasing them (?).

http://www.syfire.gov.uk/Documents/FOIA_377.pdf

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Aren't Skodas (more reliable version of VW) more expensive than Volvos? If not--its a smart move as the Skoda brand is ranked number 1 in a recent JDPowers report. I was looking for a Skoda 2nd hand but found few for sale and the ones that were on offer were very expensive.

I always wonder how this can really be the case. Either Skoda drivers treat their cars better (higher proportion of private owner drivers) or VW drivers find more minor faults with their cars. When it comes to fundamental issues such a mechanical breakdowns they are all made using the same engines, gearboxes and suspension parts, so I find it hard to believe that Skodas are inherently more reliable.

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Skoda is owned by VW and have VW engines and are also the cheapest brand owned by VW.

So is probably a financially very good decision.

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I always wonder how this can really be the case. Either Skoda drivers treat their cars better (higher proportion of private owner drivers) or VW drivers find more minor faults with their cars. When it comes to fundamental issues such a mechanical breakdowns they are all made using the same engines, gearboxes and suspension parts, so I find it hard to believe that Skodas are inherently more reliable.

I think there's certainly an element of that, but also bear in mind that VAG tend to test out their new engines, gearboxes etc on Audi and VW buyers who'll pay for it. By the time the technology filters down to Skoda models its usually tried & tested with most of the bugs ironed out.

Edited by Neil D Possitt

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I think there's certainly an element of that, but also bear in mind that VAG tend to test out their new engines, gearboxes etc on Audi and VW buyers who'll pay for it. By the time the technology filters down to Skoda models its usually tried & tested with most of the bugs ironed out.

That is true also to some degree, but in recent time Skodas seem to get the same new engines within months of VW and Audi cars getting them. It will be interesting to see if in the next few years Skoda still keep that advantage, if they do it will probably not have much to do with that, but time will tell!

Edited by BalancedBear

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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