Uk Childcare 'among Priciest In World'

[Self Employed Youth]

What is the latest on the move to price HB at the 3 decile of average rents for an area? Has that happened yet?

And has HB actually fallen or have the reported rental figures actually increased to make sure there is no impact?

And what happened to the HB cap? I havent seen people in the street yet, so I am not sure what happened. Was the cap introduced?

A short term drop that occurred last month. Rent should begin rising again.

[winkie]

It always was the case that some mums had to work for the reasons you state. What has changed is that now, if they want to have any chance at getting a mortgage, ALL mums HAVE to.

....I don't disagree with that in many cases that is true, it helps if rents are kept low enough so a decent deposit can be saved, to do that some sacrifices have to be made....sometimes people think buying a home is a right an entitlement and for them to buy one without going without other luxuries....buying a home has always been hard, be it, big deposits, lack of funding, high interest rates, lower pay......it is no different today except today the prices and cost of moving are that high two wages are required for even a small first time buyers flat, and if pay increases fail to rise and children come along most will be stuck living in something totally unsuitable ......

....so in todays market at the moment....better to stay renting and saving....children don't mind rented properties, all they require is love and security.

[olliegog]

It always was the case that some mums had to work for the reasons you state. What has changed is that now, if they want to have any chance at getting a mortgage, ALL mums HAVE to.

indeed it comes down to unaffordable house prices when the old yardstick of 3 times main salary and 1 times second salary (i.e. usually the woman) OR 2 times joint salary as the amount you can borrow and interest rates were normally around 4 or 5 percent (ignore the occasional blip) it was possible for a couple to afford to have a SAHM and still buy a house.

the other thing to point out is that childcare costs for low earners are 70% covered by the govt (i.e. the taxpayer) up to £150 per week for one child and up to £300 for more than one child. And some of these low earners are on quite good combined income.

to quote the govt web site -

'There is no set income limit for help with childcare costs. But as a general guide, if you’re a couple with one child, paying £175 a week for childcare, you'll still get some tax credits if your annual income is as high as £41,000.'

editted to clarify the 'good combined income ' statement

Edited May 10, 2011 by olliegog

[Meat Puppet]

Sarah,

thanks for that.

Another question. What happens if in an area you have over 30% of properties being rented out to HB claimants? I dont know if the 3rd decile as a price limit makes any sense or can make any sense in that situation. Does this happen anywhere, and if it does, what do they do?

Only those rents not reliant on HB are counted which is why really crap areas end up expensive and BTLers can get a good return by buying up properties there.

And that benefit cap, has anyone had to be moved out yet?

I doubt anyone has been forced out as the government slyly gave councils plenty of discretionary money to cushion the impact of the LHA changes.

[Mrs Bear]

Let's not get this out of all proportion ...

It's not just house prices to blame. The primary culprit here is surely the Death by Red Tape of childcare in the name of child protection.

Used to have a childminder coming into the library where I work. She'd been minding for years, usually one or two little ones of 2-3, lovely woman with a son of her own.

One day she came in saying she'd had Ofsted round, and they'd given her a severe ticking off for not having books on disability to read to the kids.

[winkie]

Used to have a childminder coming into the library where I work. She'd been minding for years, usually one or two little ones of 2-3, lovely woman with a son of her own.

One day she came in saying she'd had Ofsted round, and they'd given her a severe ticking off for not having books on disability to read to the kids.

A childminder I knew got reprimanded for not having a black and a white doll for the kids to play with.

[Goat]

Used to have a childminder coming into the library where I work. She'd been minding for years, usually one or two little ones of 2-3, lovely woman with a son of her own.

One day she came in saying she'd had Ofsted round, and they'd given her a severe ticking off for not having books on disability to read to the kids.

A childminder I knew got reprimanded for not having a black and a white doll for the kids to play with.

And people wonder why there's so much public sector bashing going on.

[mark1]

A childminder I knew got reprimanded for not having a black and a white doll for the kids to play with.

Ive a gollywog doll she can have.

[eightiesgirly]

My childminder gave it all up after the inspection body changed from social services to Ofsted. She said they just about wanted her house remodelled for health and safety, there was also a progress report to be written about each child daily, as well as having to aquire an NVQ and learn some teaching skills.

Bloody good waste, my kids still call her their second mum and love her to bits, she still brings them presents for their birthdays and calls to chat about how their life is going.

This country will strangle on legislation and the complete and utter destruction of the use common sense. We are being nannied to destruction.

[libspero]

My childminder gave it all up after the inspection body changed from social services to Ofsted. She said they just about wanted her house remodelled for health and safety, there was also a progress report to be written about each child daily, as well as having to aquire an NVQ and learn some teaching skills.

And people wonder why there's so much public sector bashing going on.

But, but, but...

Edited May 10, 2011 by libspero

[cells]

That's illegal unless I'm very much mistaken.

IIRC the legal ratio is 1:3 for babies, 1:4 for toddlers and 1:6 or 1:8 for older children.

WTF

why so many adult to children? 2 to 15 would seem mire sensible and more than halve costs

Wasn't long ago that women had more than 4-5-6 or more kids. They seemed to cope

Edited May 10, 2011 by cells

[eightiesgirly]

Table 3.1

Current recommended staff: child ratios in England and Wales

Age group

of children

0-2 years

2-3 years

3-5 years

Full day care

(group settings)

1:3

1:4

1:8

Type of provision

Sessional day care

(group settings)

-

-

1:8

Maintained nursery

schools and classes

-

-

1 : 10 (schools)

1 : 13 (classes)

Source: Guidance and Regulations to the Children Act Vol. 2, HMSO 1991

[Slumpmonkey Returns]

This report does not surprise me in the least as EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK! It is not surprising that international companies refer to the UK as "Treasure Island". Companies also know that they can basically charge whatever they like in Britain as there is hardly any regulation and the British people are basically deferential sheep who just bend over and submit! It is an absolute disgrace that it is cheaper to fly return from London to New York than travel by train from London to Edinburgh! Go to France or the Nevtherlands and the trains are never late and you can travel on the same day intercity very reasonably.

Why do I continue to live here? If I could speak fluent French I'd be out of this sh*t hole tomorrow. A couple we know live in between Lille and Calais - they own a four bedroom detached house with an acre of land for 130,000 euro - wouldn't be able to buy a Barratts slave box for that!

Rant over!

[levoleurdefruits]

UK child care among the priciest in the world

UK GDP among the highest in the world ($2674 bn in 2008, 6th)

pas de problem?

edit: other places where child care is expensive:

USA GDP $14093bn

Japan GDP $4911 bn

Germany GDP $3649 bn

France GDP $2857 bn

Italy GDP $2303 bn

Edited May 10, 2011 by levoleurdefruits

[libspero]

pas de problem?

edit: other places where child care is expensive:

USA GDP $14093bn

Japan GDP $4911 bn

Germany GDP $3649 bn

France GDP $2857 bn

Italy GDP $2303 bn

Is it illegal for parents to mind each others kids in those countries too?

If it is then perhaps we have some catching up to do on developing nations?

Edited May 10, 2011 by libspero

[levoleurdefruits]

Is it illegal for parents to mind each others kids in those countries too?

If it is then perhaps we have some catching up to do on developing nations?

How well protected and "safeguarded" are children in Sierra Leone? What is your point?

[libspero]

How well protected and "safeguarded" are children in Sierra Leone? What is your point?

My argument is that banning parents in Sierra Leone from minding each other's kids won't make them any safer than they already are.

My point is that in the UK we have made all alternatives to professional child care illegal.. thus creating a minimum (high) cost barrier that doesn't exist in other countries (including Sierra Leone).

[levoleurdefruits]

My argument is that banning parents in Sierra Leone from minding each other's kids won't make them any safer than they already are.

My point is that in the UK we have made all alternatives to professional child care illegal.. thus creating a minimum (high) cost barrier that doesn't exist in other countries (including Sierra Leone).

Ok. We have also made all alternatives to professional neurosurgery illegal, and while this creates a minimum (high) cost barrier it does at least ensure a certain standard of provision, protecting the users of that service. As our society becomes more wealthy we can afford to offer ourselves these protections in more and more areas.

[libspero]

Ok. We have also made all alternatives to professional neurosurgery illegal, and while this creates a minimum (high) cost barrier it does at least ensure a certain standard of provision, protecting the users of that service. As our society becomes more wealthy we can afford to offer ourselves these protections in more and more areas.

That is very kind of you to choose on my behalf that I require protection, and further to offer my money to pay for it.

Now, one question. I choose to opt out as I have a far more cost effective solution that affords me far higher protection. How may I do that please?

[bear call spread]

It might be salutary to see how these things are organised in France, or Germany, or the Netherlands, or Denmark, or Sweden, or Norway, or Finland...

A small clue: much, much better.

The Mrs and myself have discussed that if when we are ready, and if lucky enough to have kids we would seriously consider moving back to Denmark. Would really miss London and my line of work is not exactly in high demand over there, but really have to take quality of life into consideration. From family experience childcare is so much better over there.

[iamdamosuzuki]

As our society becomes more wealthy

Damn right. This time next year we'll be millionaires!

*

[levoleurdefruits]

That is very kind of you to choose on my behalf that I require protection, and further to offer my money to pay for it.

Now, one question. I choose to opt out as I have a far more cost effective solution that affords me far higher protection. How may I do that please?

Fair play, you could go and live in Lagos or Haiti- but seriously, would you put your kids in day care if you did?

[libspero]

Fair play, you could go and live in Lagos or Haiti- but seriously, would you put your kids in day care if you did?

It's a pipe dream, sure. But I imagine one day of living in a UK where I don't have to move to Haiti in order to let our close family friends look after our (future) kids..

Crazy I know.

[levoleurdefruits]

It's a pipe dream, sure. But I imagine one day of living in a UK where I don't have to move to Haiti in order to let our close family friends look after our (future) kids..

Crazy I know.

There is absolutely no problem with your family or close friends looking after your future kids, so rest easy.

But would you see a potential problem with a middle aged man recently released from prison setting up a day nursery for profit, unchecked and unregulated?

[libspero]

There is absolutely no problem with your family or close friends looking after your future kids, so rest easy.

Family, yes, friends.. I'm not sure how you can say that with conviction. They have certainly relaxed the criteria (which I applaud).. but it would still be illegal to financially compensate people for their time, plus other restrictions.

But would you see a potential problem with a middle aged man recently released from prison setting up a day nursery for profit, unchecked and unregulated?

Yes.. the main one being that nobody would be likely to use his services.

But I understand the risk, hence my original proposal was:

Deregulation and allowing the formation of private child care groups (of parents) on a tax-free basis where only reasonable expenses are paid, or on a for profit basis but only up to 5 or 6 kids and where the person running it must be the parent of at least one of the children.

Link

Currently illegal.. but not an unreasonable proposal I feel.

I'm sure it would never be passed for reasons of job protectionism.. as already outlined under the most recent relaxation of the rules:

The Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) (Amendment) Order 2010 came into effect on 8 April 2010.

The impact of the exemption will be monitored and a review is planned for 2012. As part of this it will take into account the impact on registered childminder numbers.

Linky

This is nothing to do with child safety so much as revenue and job protectionism. IMHO. I can't see any common sense objection to such a proposal otherwise.