88Crash Report post Posted May 9, 2011 “One difference is that Germany did not have a property bubble which then burst, leaving consumers and companies pulling in their belts to a painful degree to pay off debt!” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13335943 This is where the UK went wrong and it wasn’t the fault of bankers of governments, we as a nation got used to ‘easy money’ via house prices, pure and simple = collective national greed and no one that did well out of the house price boom (majority of voting Brits) questioned where the money was coming from simply because “They were OK Jack” For sure many Brits will still be doing OK, but as the austerity measures really start to hit (it hasn’t started yet BTW) there will be a lot of payback for millions, that also thought they were OK Jack Shame really, it didn’t need to be this way. I'm a Brit BTW, but I left the UK a couple of years back and I still follow UK news (I need to be up to date on UK affairs) An observation from overseas - Apart from X factor and WAG/Chav/Celeb news - the rest of the news looks awfully depressing – its all f*ckin bad and it doesn’t look like it will EVER get that much better Nothing in it for me to see the UK turn into a shit place to live, I’ve still got friends and family there, so I really hope something happens for the better? (X factor 365 days a year maybe?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the flying pig Report post Posted May 9, 2011 Pff. A quarter million euros would buy you a reasonable apartment in Berlin. in London it'd get you squat. That's the mark of our prosperiteh. All this "exports" this, "employment" that and "growth" the other is irrelevant. Our economy is built on pwoperdee. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gruffydd Report post Posted May 9, 2011 Tell me about it. The Germans understand about things like social cohesion too. You know, they pay attention to quality of life issues. Just back from short visit to Germany. Sound proofed apartment, kids playgound in square in middle with POLITE teenagers, virtually no litter or vandalism I could see. Not a particularly prosperous area either. In a similar part of say Swansea, Cardiff, Bristol, Reading, it'd have an edge and be full of wannabe gangsters. Not saying Germany is perfect, but it's a lot better than here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guitarman001 Report post Posted May 9, 2011 '88, where is it you are now? I'm still learning German with a view to moving there for a little while to see what it's like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Relaxation Suite Report post Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Tell me about it. The Germans understand about things like social cohesion too. You know, they pay attention to quality of life issues. Just back from short visit to Germany. Sound proofed apartment, kids playgound in square in middle with POLITE teenagers, virtually no litter or vandalism I could see. Not a particularly prosperous area either. In a similar part of say Swansea, Cardiff, Bristol, Reading, it'd have an edge and be full of wannabe gangsters. Not saying Germany is perfect, but it's a lot better than here! The UK is the second worst place to live in the EU (after Ireland) in terms of crime. Basically, the UK, Ireland and Estonia are the three shit holes in a category all of their own in terms of how bad the crime is. Overall - "prevalence victimisation rates for 10 common crimes in 2004" Ireland UK Estonia Netherlands Denmark Belgium Sweden Poland AVERAGE Germany Luxembourg Finland Italy Greece Austria France Portugal Hungary Spain UK is top for car theft, Germany is bottom but one (Austria). UK is second top for motorbike theft. top for burglary, second highest for theft of personal property, fifth highest for pick-pocketing, fifth for robbery, but interestingly only 7th for sex crimes - while Germany is third. I must say that France comes out very well in this report. But why prattle on? The UK has been turned into a crime-ridden shit hole, and yes I see the property bubble as part of all this. http://www.europeansafetyobservatory.eu/downloads/EUICS_The%20Burden%20of%20Crime%20in%20the%20EU.pdf Edited May 10, 2011 by Tecumseh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Injin Report post Posted May 10, 2011 As far as the economics goes, germany doesn't really exist as a seperate. There is the eurozone, which had a bubble. To say german is bubble immune is like saying midwest america didn't have a bubble - it's siortof true, but the fortunes of those there are still tied to the feckless dickheads in the east and west. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LiveAndLetBuy Report post Posted May 10, 2011 The UK is the second worst place to live in the EU (after Ireland) in terms of crime. Basically, the UK, Ireland and Estonia are the three shit holes in a category all of their own in terms of how bad the crime is. Overall - "prevalence victimisation rates for 10 common crimes in 2004" Ireland UK Estonia Netherlands Denmark Belgium Sweden Poland AVERAGE Germany Luxembourg Finland Italy Greece Austria France Portugal Hungary Spain UK is top for car theft, Germany is bottom but one (Austria). UK is second top for motorbike theft. top for burglary, second highest for theft of personal property, fifth highest for pick-pocketing, fifth for robbery, but interestingly only 7th for sex crimes - while Germany is third. I must say that France comes out very well in this report. But why prattle on? The UK has been turned into a crime-ridden shit hole, and yes I see the property bubble as part of all this. http://www.europeansafetyobservatory.eu/downloads/EUICS_The%20Burden%20of%20Crime%20in%20the%20EU.pdf Unsurprising to see Spain do well- the Spanish government gives practically no handouts whatsoever for having children, so people can't make a career out of procreating and then dumping their offspring onto the streets to run wild as soon as possible*. (*the gypsies being the exception) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Cash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Tell me about it. The Germans understand about things like social cohesion too. You know, they pay attention to quality of life issues. Just back from short visit to Germany. Sound proofed apartment, kids playgound in square in middle with POLITE teenagers, virtually no litter or vandalism I could see. Not a particularly prosperous area either. In a similar part of say Swansea, Cardiff, Bristol, Reading, it'd have an edge and be full of wannabe gangsters. Not saying Germany is perfect, but it's a lot better than here! Amen to that brother. In addition to your list , tenants have much more stability and rights that the woefully inadequate British equivalents. Have an after dinner chat in Germany and we talk about travel, family, politics, philosophy - in Britain its celebs and reality TV. Oh and here bars stay open as long as they like and 1/2 litre bottles of beer cost 75c in every bottle shop but you dont see any drunkenness and the cities aren't no go areas after 10pm at the weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHERWICK Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Amen to that brother. In addition to your list , tenants have much more stability and rights that the woefully inadequate British equivalents. Have an after dinner chat in Germany and we talk about travel, family, politics, philosophy - in Britain its celebs and reality TV. Oh and here bars stay open as long as they like and 1/2 litre bottles of beer cost 75c in every bottle shop but you dont see any drunkenness and the cities aren't no go areas after 10pm at the weekend. Where's you sense of humour?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Cash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Where's you sense of humour?! Ha Ha! Yes its a good stereotype that Germans have no sense of humour but ask any Brit who has lived in Germany (and speaks German, of course) and he or she will tell you that Germans have a very good sense of humour. Its just that, unlike the often cruel and purile British sort (Little Britain?), the German sort is more adult and sophisticated. Edited May 10, 2011 by Johnny Cash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHERWICK Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Ha Ha! Yes its a stereotype that Germans have no sense of humour but ask any Brit who has lived in Germany (and speaks German, of course) and he or she will tell you that Germans have a very good sense of humour. Its just that, unlike the often cruel and purile British sort (Little Britain?), the German sort is more adult and sophisticated. Have you mentioned the war and done the funny walk in front of them yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Cash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Have you mentioned the war and done the funny walk in front of them yet? Yes I've mentioned the war quite a few times. Unlike the Brits who seem to have this idea that since Germany lost the last world war nearly 70 years ago, it must be a taboo subject, the Germans are happy to discuss it. Do you expect the average Brit to be embarrassed if you mention the Battle of Hastings? Your reference to a comedy show that was first screened 35 years ago is very interesting though. I think it illustrates quite well just how much some people live in the past, (any item of news concerning Germany is twisted to include a reference to the war by the British tabloid press). Fawlty towers was a great, possibly the greatest comedy produced in Britain and I know many Germans who enjoy it - even the episode "The Germans". Ive never tried the funny walk though. Edited May 10, 2011 by Johnny Cash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guitarman001 Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Amen to that brother. In addition to your list , tenants have much more stability and rights that the woefully inadequate British equivalents. Have an after dinner chat in Germany and we talk about travel, family, politics, philosophy - in Britain its celebs and reality TV. Oh and here bars stay open as long as they like and 1/2 litre bottles of beer cost 75c in every bottle shop but you dont see any drunkenness and the cities aren't no go areas after 10pm at the weekend. +1000! I've visited twice and the experience was more than positive. Just the quality of the people... they seemed far more intelligent and mature, hardly any hooligans. It was great! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Cash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Oh, and another thing That recent election in Britain about AV. A once in a generation, if not once in a lifetime chance to affect the way governments are elected and what was the turnout? 40%? Whatever the merits of either system the fact that 6 out of 10 people either couldn't be bothered or didn't think it was important enough to care about speaks volumes about the British populace today. That wouldn't have happened in Germany. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skomer Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Amen to that brother. In addition to your list , tenants have much more stability and rights that the woefully inadequate British equivalents. Have an after dinner chat in Germany and we talk about travel, family, politics, philosophy - in Britain its celebs and reality TV. Oh and here bars stay open as long as they like and 1/2 litre bottles of beer cost 75c in every bottle shop but you dont see any drunkenness and the cities aren't no go areas after 10pm at the weekend. Probably tells me more about you and the German friends you keep than the average German to be honest Also i am wondering which German cities you frequent, drunkenness and no go areas after 10pm are unfortunately an increasingly common phenonenom. Although in places like Berlin they tend to be drunk foreigners from Britain They are just as celebrity obsessed as in Britain you only have to watch German TV (Satellite,RTL etc) to see this and read Bild and the other newspapers. Not all Germans watch high-brow shows on ZDF and read SudDeutsche Zeitung everday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88Crash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 '88, where is it you are now? I'm still learning German with a view to moving there for a little while to see what it's like. Hi – I’m actually in Cape Town, but that’s because I can run my (small) business from anywhere in the world. If it wasn’t for that, it would be hard/impossible for me to get a job here and certainly South Africa is not for everyone!!! Apart from the cheap beer, I pay approx one third of the price for a luxury apartment here compared to London. I am also 50, so not exactly retired, but family has grown up, so distance from UK is not such an issue..Now if I were younger Germany is definitely a place I would consider moving to, especially if you take a long term view (or for that matter some of the Scandinavian countries) One big factor is it is EU so working there is not a problem and over the years I have known several people that have worked in Germany and WITHOUT exception they all had a great experience (some are still living there) I’d advise you to a) visit a few parts of Germany Check out some of the internet forums to give you an idea of the good and bad aspects of living in Germany and if you decide to go for it – best wishes for the future Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHERWICK Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Its the UK Class system, designed to put everyone down as we saw with the Royal Wedding, and the Banks have a grip on the UK that other countries wouldnt stand for and probably couldnt support anyway. Sometimes the abused cant recognise the abuser! But the Royal Family are Germans! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88Crash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 But why prattle on? The UK has been turned into a crime-ridden shit hole, and yes I see the property bubble as part of all this. http://www.europeansafetyobservatory.eu/downloads/EUICS_The%20Burden%20of%20Crime%20in%20the%20EU.pdf Yep, apart from what our own eyes tell us, there are plenty of facts to back up any statement like "The UK is going to the dogs" - its not just moaning for the sake of it...or seeing the 'grass is greener' stuff in other countries and yes, I know there are plenty of countries worse than the UK, but there are also plenty of better ones, especially with regard to 'day to day' quality of life Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88Crash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Amen to that brother. In addition to your list , tenants have much more stability and rights that the woefully inadequate British equivalents. Have an after dinner chat in Germany and we talk about travel, family, politics, philosophy - in Britain its celebs and reality TV. Oh and here bars stay open as long as they like and 1/2 litre bottles of beer cost 75c in every bottle shop but you dont see any drunkenness and the cities aren't no go areas after 10pm at the weekend. Its a different world eh! Plus the Germans don't talk all night long about f*ckin House Prices Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skomer Report post Posted May 10, 2011 But the Royal Family are Germans! Less and less so over time though thanks to Di and Kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88Crash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Its the UK Class system, designed to put everyone down as we saw with the Royal Wedding, and the Banks have a grip on the UK that other countries wouldnt stand for and probably couldnt support anyway. Sometimes the abused cant recognise the abuser! Or for the best part of 12 years - people put up with the abuse as a trade off for house prices rising 10-20% per annum Those that were not benefitting from HPI were given reality TV instead Edited May 10, 2011 by 88Crash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aa3 Report post Posted May 10, 2011 A lot of Brits wouldn't be getting wasted drunk 4 nights a week if they had good jobs to go to in the morning. For one thing most people are tired after working hard all day. In real jobs like in a factory or construction. Also the breakdown of the family unit I think goes along with the fall of good jobs for the average man. Things would have to be pretty bad for a woman with kids to leave a guy who is say a dockworker with a big stable pay coming in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Cash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Probably tells me more about you and the German friends you keep than the average German to be honest Also i am wondering which German cities you frequent, drunkenness and no go areas after 10pm are unfortunately an increasingly common phenonenom. Although in places like Berlin they tend to be drunk foreigners from Britain They are just as celebrity obsessed as in Britain you only have to watch German TV (Satellite,RTL etc) to see this and read Bild and the other newspapers. Not all Germans watch high-brow shows on ZDF and read SudDeutsche Zeitung everday Fair enough. I think I have a good cross section of friends both English and German ranging from airline pilots and doctors down to people who left school at 16 and do unskilled work, but clearly my sample is of limited size. I still think that in general my comparison stands though. Well Ive spent s few evenings out in Berlin, Munich, Duesseldorf, Nurnberg, Frankfurt and Hamburg and not seen much public vomiting, screaming in the streets, women dressed in bras, miniskirts and sandals in the middle of winter, punchups and aggression, and even in the Reeperbahn area of Hamburg its mostly orderly. Can you imagine how that would be if it were in Britain? Also, true there are reality TV shows here as well and plenty of people watch them. They all seem to be able to treat it as entertainment though and not take it quite so seriously as the Brits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skomer Report post Posted May 10, 2011 Fair enough. I think I have a good cross section of friends both English and German ranging from airline pilots and doctors down to people who left school at 16 and do unskilled work, but clearly my sample is of limited size. I still think that in general my comparison stands though. Well Ive spent s few evenings out in Berlin, Munich, Duesseldorf, Nurnberg, Frankfurt and Hamburg and not seen much public vomiting, screaming in the streets, women dressed in bras, miniskirts and sandals in the middle of winter, punchups and aggression, and even in the Reeperbahn area of Hamburg its mostly orderly. Can you imagine how that would be if it were in Britain? Also, true there are reality TV shows here as well and plenty of people watch them. They all seem to be able to treat it as entertainment though and not take it quite so seriously as the Brits. Generally i would agree with you. I work for a German organisation and am over there frequently - i just find the 'grass is greener' attitude you see on HPC is a bit laughable when comparisons are made between UK and other countries. I know many Germans who would love to work and spend time in the UK, in fact many do already. Germany has some really great things going for it, its forward thinking on all things green for example, its distrust of debt & the credit-card culture, and distancing from the US neo-conservative ideology but its not all sweetness and light and i would say culturally at the moment its sleepwalking towards the Anglo-Saxon social model with all the problems that is going to bring Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Cash Report post Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Generally i would agree with you. I work for a German organisation and am over there frequently - i just find the 'grass is greener' attitude you see on HPC is a bit laughable when comparisons are made between UK and other countries. I know many Germans who would love to work and spend time in the UK, in fact many do already. There is an element of Grass being Greener here on HPC but I think in general the British populace has a misplaced, misinformed attitude that everything in Britain is best and it cant possibly be as good over where Johnny Foreigner is. Couple of examples being: People thinking that Britain culturally is light years ahead of other European countries. They think its all mullets and songs sounding like eurovision entries. But they dont have the vaguest clue what real life is like in Germany, Spain, Italy, France etc. They mock though all the same. 2, The horror British people feel if they are injured or fall ill abroad "Oh god, I had to go into one of those foreign hospitals", as if they still cut your leg off with a rusty saw and no anaesthetic, totally ignoring the fact that British hospitals and healthcare regularly come bottom in all sorts of European league tables. Germany has some really great things going for it, its forward thinking on all things green for example, its distrust of debt & the credit-card culture, and distancing from the US neo-conservative ideology but its not all sweetness and light and i would say culturally at the moment its sleepwalking towards the Anglo-Saxon social model with all the problems that is going to bring Anglo Saxon social model? Can't wait - bring it on. After all, the British experiment in multi culturalism that has been forced down peoples throats has been such a great success. Edited May 10, 2011 by Johnny Cash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
