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Would Scotland Cope, If They Won Independence?

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If they went went it alone, do you think Scotland could manage? Do you think they could balance the books?

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Salmond will get Independence as he's going to reduce private taxes, increase corp taxes and debts and have referendum within a few years. Then Scotland will go the way of Ireland. They will not get to keep the oil.

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Why wouldn't they? Every other western country of the same size can, and Scotland has plenty more advantages than many.

I think they do have an addiction to statism and dreams about nonexistent oil wealth, but thats a curse, and a curse that we have inflicted on them. Kinda like the resource curse, except the "resource" is the English taxpayer. They'd do better without it, after a readjustment.

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given the bailouts needed for RBS and HBOS, they would be bankrupt.

if scotland ever did go independant i cannot envisage them ever returning under the UK.

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WTF do the Westminster parties so much want to keep Scotland as part of the UK?

E.g. look at some of the other threads here : many English want shot of Scotland ASAP

Why is the governing party of the UK the 'Conservative and Unionist party'?

Why can't they just let go?

The English want it - the Scots want it. FFS put both sides out of their misery!

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Don't Won't see why not.

Corrected for you.

Socialism does not work, anywhere, ever. You run out of other people's money you see, and without the English this would happen to Scotland very quickly.

Then again, maybe they could strike out and start a new settlement on the Panamanian Isthmus, or something.

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Depends how much of the oil they can keep

Anything more than a third of the oil and they would probably be richer independent.

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Salmond will get Independence as he's going to reduce private taxes, increase corp taxes and debts and have referendum within a few years. Then Scotland will go the way of Ireland. They will not get to keep the oil.

LOL "get" to keep the oil HAHAHAHA - you and whos army?

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Corrected for you.

Socialism does not work, anywhere, ever. You run out of other people's money you see, and without the English this would happen to Scotland very quickly.

Then again, maybe they could strike out and start a new settlement on the Panamanian Isthmus, or something.

got anything to back that up? No? Didn't think so...

This whole "discussion" is the equivalent of a group of blind men sitting in a room discussion the colour of sh1te....

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Well considering Ireland doesn't have oil, I never really understood that comparison.

I think Scotland is much more likely to go the way of Norway (I believe that is considered a "dreaded" socialist nation). That country has a SURPLUS of over $200,000 for every person in it. Not bad for a wee, "socialist" nation...

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What's with the oil? Most of the fields in the North Sea are played out already.... The UK is a net oil importer and that situation is only going to get worse.

Ever considered why the questions are never put to Salmond and the rest of them as to how Scotland can afford free Uni and Prescriptions? It is because it is better to keep most English people ignorant of the facts.

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given the bailouts needed for RBS and HBOS, they would be bankrupt.

The UK is already bankrupt anyway.

Scotland would not need to bail out RBS and HBOS, they could just let them go bust.

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Well considering Ireland doesn't have oil, I never really understood that comparison.

I think Scotland is much more likely to go the way of Norway (I believe that is considered a "dreaded" socialist nation). That country has a SURPLUS of over $200,000 for every person in it. Not bad for a wee, "socialist" nation...

:lol:, Norway has a massive SWF and large supplies of oil. England/Scotland have been pissing most of theirs away on short termist sh@t buying votes, selling it off to their buddies via privatisation for a quick boost, acheiving lower taxation the last 30 years during a commodities super bear.

They are in a slightly different position, you might have had a point 30 years ago

If i was a Noweigan id be offended at such a comparison, the mentality there bears no resemblance to the short termist mentality of the British, Norway is unusually proper theoretical socialist, long term planning (the SWF helps achieve this), The Uk is practical socialist (ie jam today, someone else can pay tomorrow)

Edited by georgia o'keeffe

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Well considering Ireland doesn't have oil, I never really understood that comparison.

I think Scotland is much more likely to go the way of Norway (I believe that is considered a "dreaded" socialist nation). That country has a SURPLUS of over $200,000 for every person in it. Not bad for a wee, "socialist" nation...

Too late to do that - the money has already been spent. Future north sea oil revenues will be a fraction of what they were. More importantly an independent Scotland would no doubt wish to take its share of the assets but would it also want to take its share of the liabilities? Public sector pension liabilities and Scottish bank bail outs would render an independent Scotland insolvent from the start.

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given the bailouts needed for RBS and HBOS, they would be bankrupt.

I can't understand this argument. They may have originated in Scotland, but aren't they currently pan-UK financial institutions, who were bailed out by the UK govt/BoE ? Would citizens of Maidstone or Yeovil keep quiet if their HBOS deposit disappeared? As shown by the Ireland affair, there is no way the BoE can afford to have a neighbouring banking system collapse. Of course it remains to be seen whether a new Scottish nation could guarantee bank deposits to the same level.

I'm fairly sure (after meeting and working with many industrious and resourceful Scots) that Scotland can cope if they left the UK. No reason why they can't build up further their tourism, foodstuffs (whisky and seafood) and energy sectors. Plus (if they're sensible) they won't be paying out for nuclear submarines, Libyan adventures etc. Of course if they really miss the military presence they can always rent out military bases. BUT, I do get the impression that certain things that are currently free (or low cost) will have to be charged for, in the future. That's for future Scottish governments to work out.

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:lol:, Norway has a massive SWF and large supplies of oil. England/Scotland have been pissing most of theirs away on short termist sh@t buying votes, selling it off to their buddies via privatisation for a quick boost, acheiving lower taxation the last 30 years during a commodities super bear.

They are in a slightly different position, you might have had a point 30 years ago

If i was a Noweigan id be offended at such a comparison, the mentality there bears no resemblance to the short termist mentality of the British, Norway is unusually proper theoretical socialist, long term planning (the SWF helps achieve this), The Uk is practical socialist (ie jam today, someone else can pay tomorrow)

For its size it is probably the biggest producer of oil & gas per person in the world.

It would be like the UK producing 20m barrels of oil per day and 1 TW of gas. With that even the UK can afford to be socialist. Hell you could afford to be true communists with that sort of luck

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I dont think that the oil question makes a great deal of difference. Apart from the fact that it is running out a substantial amount of it is in English waters anyway.

The politico's are playing with fire. Salmond is giving the Scotts concessions that can ill be afforded to curry favour but they are funded Westminster - English taxpayers - and causing more resentment each day. When Cameron says no he will be blamed for holding Scotland back and being unfair and it will be used as further evidence of Scotland being ruled by English oppressors :rolleyes: . The resentment will only grow on both sides of the wall imo.

If true independence is gained, I dont see it as being anything but massively difficult to sort out terms, then I dont know how Scotland could manage.

Would there still be a British army/navy/airforce? If not then what happens to scotland when everything to do with defence/procurement/military admin is pulled from scotland? Will they be able to not only fund their own nhs but pay staff enough to attract or even retain them? Where will they get the funds to set up their own equivalents of public offices like the dvla?

Scotland has a lot of exports but what currency will they use (euro?) and how would they deal with the fluctuation of import/export costs?

On the other hand I see lots of benefit for England but what happens to sterling in the interim is a big question. Tbh I think that as an island we are stronger together but liebour fked that up beyond all recognition.

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There are far too many scum bags in sunny Jockland for us to cope on our own. It would be a ******ing nightmare. IMO.

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got anything to back that up? No? Didn't think so...

This whole "discussion" is the equivalent of a group of blind men sitting in a room discussion the colour of sh1te....

Lmao...... :D Good to see somebody sticking up for us, though - cheers!

ccc, I do share that sentiment somewhat...

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Too late to do that - the money has already been spent. Future north sea oil revenues will be a fraction of what they were. More importantly an independent Scotland would no doubt wish to take its share of the assets but would it also want to take its share of the liabilities? Public sector pension liabilities and Scottish bank bail outs would render an independent Scotland insolvent from the start.

I would view this as a good thing. Many here have stated many times that what we need is a major shock to the system before things can get better. The sooner the better IMO.

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I can't understand this argument. They may have originated in Scotland, but aren't they currently pan-UK financial institutions, who were bailed out by the UK govt/BoE ? Would citizens of Maidstone or Yeovil keep quiet if their HBOS deposit disappeared? As shown by the Ireland affair, there is no way the BoE can afford to have a neighbouring banking system collapse. Of course it remains to be seen whether a new Scottish nation could guarantee bank deposits to the same level.

I'm fairly sure (after meeting and working with many industrious and resourceful Scots) that Scotland can cope if they left the UK. No reason why they can't build up further their tourism, foodstuffs (whisky and seafood) and energy sectors. Plus (if they're sensible) they won't be paying out for nuclear submarines, Libyan adventures etc. Of course if they really miss the military presence they can always rent out military bases. BUT, I do get the impression that certain things that are currently free (or low cost) will have to be charged for, in the future. That's for future Scottish governments to work out.

A good post all round.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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