southmartin Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 The Scots Numpty Party (SNP) has managed to defeat the attempts of the unionists who deliberately devised the electoral system to thwart single party government (and hence leave independence off the practical political agenda) and get a majority in Scotland. The SNP leader Alex Salmond can now call a referendum on independence . However, to have a referendum which is binding, the SNP needs the sanction of the UK Parliament. From his public comments David Cameron appears to accept that such a referendum would be binding because he has stated since this SNP victory that if a referendum was held he would campaign for a NO. Whether or not Scotland would vote for independence is debatable. Polls consistently show a majority against, although there are always a substantial number of “don’t knows”. In a referendum held only in Scotland with the YES campaign headed by Salmond and the NO campaign led by Scottish non-entities or people from outside of Scotland such as Cameron, it is possible that a Yes result might be obtained. I have no visceral objection to Scots independence, but the strongest objection to Scotland walking away from the Union without taking full responsibility for themselves and leaving the English to pick up the financial mess which a mixture of regular English subsidy of Scotland and the massive costs of the rescuing the Scottish banks RBS and HBOS. To this end the conditionsCameron should lay down for Scottish independence are these : Read the conditions here: http://englandcalling.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/scottish-independence-yes-but-only-on-these-terms/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the referendum ends up in full independence for Scotland, I, and many other Scots exiled in England, will be moving back there after 40 years in England, contributing to the English economy. The intellectual loss to England will be considerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southmartin Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the referendum ends up in full independence for Scotland, I, and many other Scots exiled in England, will be moving back there after 40 years in England, contributing to the English economy. The intellectual loss to England will be considerable. What would your feeling be toward taking on the 'fair share' of the UK debt, but also the RBS/HBOS bailout cost too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccles Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the referendum ends up in full independence for Scotland, I, and many other Scots exiled in England, will be moving back there after 40 years in England, contributing to the English economy. The intellectual loss to England will be considerable. Yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Yes, that is right. As for football, we've had to put up with the EBBC (English British Broadcasting Corp) for so long... What is it with these threads harbouring anti-Scottish sentiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Lol, no problem. I'm sure both sides could come up with lists as long as their own arms. I don't have this hate inside, but when I see rabid posters go off on one, thta DOES annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyracantha Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 What is it with these threads harbouring anti-Scottish sentiment? I know, it's bizarre. Most people seemed to be in favour of the separation of the former Czechoslovakia etc but so many become rabid over Scotland. When I see arguments about what happened 300 years ago I just despair. Is there any good reason why a nation should not have self determination? As a Scot, I will acknowledge that unfortunately some of my countrymen do like to blame the English for many things and wonder what they would do if they actually got independence. However writing "Jockland" etc will not encourage a mature discussion. Can we just put to bed the whole nonsense about Scottish banks being the cause of the current situation. Despite the names, RBS etc are about as Scottish as McDonalds or David Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyracantha Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 We could however as you no doubt will be aware Alistar Darling and that tw@t Brown didn't ensure bankers didn't couldn't make obscene profits while the rest of the populous take their pain, via the bank bail outs. While agreeing with your comments about Brown and Darling, I think that's more of a Labour party issue than them being Scottish specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Well, if you wanted to take out all the forums bigots in one go, just pack you most of you lot on a half bus drive it over a cliff. This is troll central in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggggy Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 anyhoo.... nobodys mentioned it so I will,..... what happens to the Union Jack on Scottish independance ??? is the blue Scotish bit covering over the Welsh dragon ? will Rangers fans suddenly become Scottish not British ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 will Rangers fans suddenly become Scottish not British ??? lets hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southmartin Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 anyhoo.... nobodys mentioned it so I will,..... what happens to the Union Jack on Scottish independance ??? is the blue Scotish bit covering over the Welsh dragon ? will Rangers fans suddenly become Scottish not British ??? I suspect it's be wise to keep the flag as it is for say a period of 10 years, just in case they have change of heart, and decide that living in a third world country that can't support itself, isn't actually a very good idea. Though I write that as a citizen of a soon-to-be third world nation, if we had to pay the debt back! I just think the revenue-raising ability of Scotland is a lot less per head, than England... but i'll agree it's a 'whose the ugliest' competition, and we're not exactly at the top of the pile either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the referendum ends up in full independence for Scotland, I, and many other Scots exiled in England, will be moving back there after 40 years in England, contributing to the English economy. The intellectual loss to England will be considerable. Will you be taking Gordon Brown and Tony Blair with you? Because us English will be paying for their intellectual contribution to our country for the next bloody 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyracantha Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 will Rangers fans suddenly become Scottish not British ??? As a rough rule of thumb when Rangers play vs Celtic: Rangers fans think of themselves as 'British' & carry the Union Flag, Celtic fans are 'Irish' and carry the Tricolour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I know, it's bizarre. Most people seemed to be in favour of the separation of the former Czechoslovakia etc but so many become rabid over Scotland. When I see arguments about what happened 300 years ago I just despair. Is there any good reason why a nation should not have self determination? As a Scot, I will acknowledge that unfortunately some of my countrymen do like to blame the English for many things and wonder what they would do if they actually got independence. However writing "Jockland" etc will not encourage a mature discussion. Can we just put to bed the whole nonsense about Scottish banks being the cause of the current situation. Despite the names, RBS etc are about as Scottish as McDonalds or David Cameron. Board membership says different. Loan books say different. Much of the catastrophic lending (including the lending to Ireland) at HBOS was actually at the BoS subsiduary and was masterminded by Peter Cumming. Google Ian Fraser and Cumming and see just who he was lending to. As we know, there has been no public enquiry into the $trillion or so of liabilities undertaken by the taxpayer to support the lending of this handful of individuals. Nothing at all by anyone. The cover up of where the money went, who benefitted, why there were little risk controls at BoS and so on is one of the most astonishing in world history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habeas Domus Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the referendum ends up in full independence for Scotland, I, and many other Scots exiled in England, will be moving back there after 40 years in England, contributing to the English economy. The intellectual loss to England will be considerable. if full independence happened I wonder how they would decide who is English and who Scottish? Maybe they would just classify you as English because thats where you live? Would people born outside scotland but who have lived there all their lives become Scottish instead of British? Could they levy scottish taxes on Scots living in England, what about someone who crosses the border to work every day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 if full independence happened I wonder how they would decide who is English and who Scottish? Maybe they would just classify you as English because thats where you live? Would people born outside scotland but who have lived there all their lives become Scottish instead of British? Could they levy scottish taxes on Scots living in England, what about someone who crosses the border to work every day? My nephew was born in Scotland and lives there at the moment, his parents are English. Are there any real benefits to Scotland for independence? The desire of it for some seems to be entirely emotional. As for how Scotland would do independently, no better or worse than any other small European country would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 No matter we can get a load of cheap Europeans to fill your places, or, guess what, we might be able to fill your place with English people, that's a radical idea isn't it. Radical,especially as the mean IQ of the English would have to be considerably elevated in a short period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Not many trolls here really, just people who debate hard and if is that bad and you obviously think so, why have you posted over 4000 posts here? Are you frequented with the word hypocrite? Shouldn't you be over in UF where you can slag off HPC to your heart's content, oh and not post comments which don't suit your politics and politically correct persuasion? +1 - I, for one, am just having a bit of Scottish jingoistic fun. [i miss this, living in England !!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Will you be taking Gordon Brown and Tony Blair with you? Because us English will be paying for their intellectual contribution to our country for the next bloody 50 years. What would we want to do that for? After all YOU elected them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Yes, that is right. As for football, we've had to put up with the EBBC (English British Broadcasting Corp) for so long... What is it with these threads harbouring anti-Scottish sentiment? I think we need a good England vs Scotland WAR to clear the air once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Lol, no problem. I'm sure both sides could come up with lists as long as their own arms. I don't have this hate inside, but when I see rabid posters go off on one, thta DOES annoy me. +1, from the sassenach side. This is why we need a split. Blair's broken constitutional arrangement can only lead to growing resentment: a bad marriage. Let's have a clean divorce and be friends at a comfortable distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 what happens to the Union Jack on Scottish independance ??? Put it in the museum, where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 if full independence happened I wonder how they would decide who is English and who Scottish? Maybe they would just classify you as English because thats where you live? Would people born outside scotland but who have lived there all their lives become Scottish instead of British? Could they levy scottish taxes on Scots living in England, what about someone who crosses the border to work every day? Where's the problem? Same kind of arrangement as my friends who used to commute across the Rhine from Germany to Switzerland, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 An even pressing matter...who will be British Tennis no. 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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