Lagarde's Drift Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) They are quoting today's Philharmonics 1oz at £25.96 + VAT, which at 20% = £31.15, however at 7% it is £27.78. So, for 100 coins UK delivery, it costs £3115.20 + (free shipping due to amount) = £3115.20 For 100 coins collect in Germany, it costs £2777.70 + (30 Euros collection fee) = £2808 roughly, saving about £308 per 100 coins. Obviously not taking into account the cost of getting there to collect in person, nor the risks / insurance of doing so. I suspect it would not be economical to drive / Eurostar / fly to Frankfurt for any sum amounting to fewer than 500 coins, not to mention the risks. Edit: Although, if there was ever an excuse for a road trip holiday... should be simple enough to fit 500 coins into motorbike luggage. Edited May 4, 2011 by Cash with Nowhere to Go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulthepunk Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi CWNTG (no offence!), You still only pay 7% if you instruct a courier to pick up your order, so road trip will have to wait! Haven't looked into rates yet but I'm sure there are bargains to have. Regards, Paul. P.s. I hope $39 holds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yes you can instruct a courier to pick up but the liability is all yours. Not really my bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesinamillion Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 £200 wiped off the "value" of my kilo bar of silver in a week Still "worth" +£200 more than I paid for it way back in December (2010!) Crazy crazy ride so far, I need to learn how to spot the bottom to load up on some more - a friend heading to canada next week, is 24%vat applied to silver maples in canada or not with them being tender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 £200 wiped off the "value" of my kilo bar of silver in a week Still "worth" +£200 more than I paid for it way back in December (2010!) Crazy crazy ride so far, I need to learn how to spot the bottom to load up on some more - a friend heading to canada next week, is 24%vat applied to silver maples in canada or not with them being tender? Not sure about the vat in canada but I am sure that you are liable for duties when you come through customs and if you get caught having not declared them then there is a risk of confiscation. You are allowed to carry £10k cash between countries and there is the argument that maples should be counted at face value as they are legal currency rather than being thought of as silver but I wouldnt like to risk it. I know that it is hit and miss when trying that argument with the royal mail/HMRC with coins posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 You are allowed to carry £10k cash between countries and there is the argument that maples should be counted at face value as they are legal currency rather than being thought of as silver but I wouldnt like to risk it. I know that it is hit and miss when trying that argument with the royal mail/HMRC with coins posted. Assuming you have hit and missed, your elaboration would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Assuming you have hit and missed, your elaboration would be appreciated. Don't ****** with hmrc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Don't ****** with hmrc? Wise words but the relevance escapes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Take Me Back To London! Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Don't ****** with hmrc? Like the Outland Revenue in Red Dwarf. Tax demand letter for Rimmer from the Outland Revenue. Lister - "Relax, the're not going to catch you now ". Rimmer - "What do you mean! Just because we are 3 million years into deep space and the human species is extinct - that means nothing to these people, they'll find us." at 7.20 and 26.15 + 28.20 the Outland Revenue arrives for collection. Edited May 5, 2011 by Take Me Back To London! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Wise words but the relevance escapes me. Officer, these 10000 silver coins have a face value of 1gbp, therefore I ain't breaking any import laws! Er, sir, that's ******** and you know it. Pay the tax. And the fine. Now. Then bend over. Capiche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Officer, these 10000 silver coins have a face value of 1gbp, therefore I ain't breaking any import laws! Er, sir, that's ******** and you know it. Pay the tax. And the fine. Now. Then bend over. Capiche? Speculation ? Or a real life event with possible litigation pending ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Speculation ? Or a real life event with possible litigation pending ? Speculation, of course. I would never attempt such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Speculation, of course. I would never attempt such a thing. Fair enough. If you had 10000 silver coins with a face value of 1GBP, I think your biggest worry would be permanent damage to your back in attempting to carry them. Well over 20 stone by my reckoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 This is the 21st century, not some sort of neanderthal world. Lol. Would you walk to Frankfurt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 This is the 21st century, not some sort of neanderthal world. Lol. Would you walk to Frankfurt? Still a weighty pillion passenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Officer, these 10000 silver coins have a face value of 1gbp, therefore I ain't breaking any import laws! Er, sir, that's ******** and you know it. Pay the tax. And the fine. Now. Then bend over. Capiche? There have been a few cases both here and in the states, worth looking at imo. Technically a sov is legal tender and has a face value of £1 but I wouldnt like to take on the HMRC with that argument. Likewise foreign silver is due import duty but it has a face value and cash is not subject to duty, the only rule is not carrying more than £10k unless declaring it. I won one argument and lost one when it came to duties on maples. I know that Germans were buying phillies in austria and taking them home being considered at face rather than as bullion by the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Fair enough. If you had 10000 silver coins with a face value of 1GBP, I think your biggest worry would be permanent damage to your back in attempting to carry them. Well over 20 stone by my reckoning. yeah, you need to add a little more than that - more like 49 stone. I dont think that many people mess around with silver through airports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 yeah, you need to add a little more than that - more like 49 stone. I dont think that many people mess around with silver through airports. Yup, that was my thinking - use water preferentially, or land transport. I'd be using plain bullion bars for those kind of amounts, no messing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Take Me Back To London! Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yup, that was my thinking - use water preferentially, or land transport. I'd be using plain bullion bars for those kind of amounts, no messing. Bars are nice, the downside being you have pay 19% tax, instead of 7% for silver coins with a nominal face value. However, for example, US Silver Eagles and Austrian Philharmonics come from the national mints in sturdy and compact coin tubes containing 20 coins and the Canadian mint tubes contain 25 Maples. Also before transporting the coin tubes, I would recommend opening the tubes and placing a small piece of tissue paper or foam to stop the coins rattling around and an extra piece of adhesive tape across the lid to prevent it coming off, which can happen if they get shaken about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I won one argument and lost one when it came to duties on maples. I would be generally interested in the argumentation that occurred. Whether you wish to divulge such personal information is obviously up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 yeah, you need to add a little more than that - more like 49 stone. My calculation has just come up with a touch over 24 and half stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobson Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 They are quoting today's Philharmonics 1oz at £25.96 + VAT, which at 20% = £31.15, however at 7% it is £27.78. So, for 100 coins UK delivery, it costs £3115.20 + (free shipping due to amount) = £3115.20 For 100 coins collect in Germany, it costs £2777.70 + (30 Euros collection fee) = £2808 roughly, saving about £308 per 100 coins. Obviously not taking into account the cost of getting there to collect in person, nor the risks / insurance of doing so. I suspect it would not be economical to drive / Eurostar / fly to Frankfurt for any sum amounting to fewer than 500 coins, not to mention the risks. Edit: Although, if there was ever an excuse for a road trip holiday... should be simple enough to fit 500 coins into motorbike luggage. I brought 30K worth of coins back from a german dealer in Hamburg (smaller premiums than any British dealer so forget coininvestdirect, just go to german bullion dealer). 20K in gold, 10 K in silver. When I got my bags checked at the airport, I told the guy that the silver coins were poker chips, waved through, no problems. In the UK, obvioulsy I never declared.....cos that would just be stupid. If the UK government wants to enforce laws that enforces small time metals investors to take thier money into a foreign economy, than that aint my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 My calculation has just come up with a touch over 24 and half stone. 31.1g per coin x 10000 = 311000 311 kilo's is 49 stones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 31.1g per coin x 10000 = 311000 311 kilo's is 49 stones That's the weight for a £2 Britannia, presumably a £1 face value coin would be half the weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 There have been a few cases both here and in the states, worth looking at imo. I've googled for UK cases but can't find any, can you give me some more info so I can look at the rulings please. The US case that I found was Kahre. He got a custodial sentence of 176 years, was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.