Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Cinzano Bianco

Tube Strikes: Dates For Walkout By Drivers Revealed

Recommended Posts

BBC

How does the RMT get away with inflicting chaos on millions, with the votes of less than 400 people?

Sure to do wonders for "growth":

Union bosses have revealed details of a series of Tube strikes due to start in less than two weeks.

Tube drivers voted to strike over the "unfair" sacking of two colleagues, the Rail Maritime and Transport union said.

The union said the first walkout was planned for 16 May, with another five before the end of June.

London Underground (LU) said the drivers were sacked over "abusive behaviour" and "disregarding safety systems."

The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union said it expected about 1,500 drivers, who are members of the union, not to turn up for shifts on six periods in May and June.

The walkouts are planned for between nine and 24 hours from Monday 16 May to Friday 20 May and again from Monday 13 June to Friday 17 June.

RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said: "It is the abject failure of London Underground (LU) to recognise that their policy of victimisation of union activists has been well and truly rumbled... that has left us with no choice but to name these dates for strike action."

He said LU should "accept they have been found out, get these drivers back to work doing the job that they are being paid to do and bring an end to the constant harassment of union activists whose only crime is fighting cuts to jobs and safety."

The RMT said almost two-thirds of its members voted in favour of industrial action over claims Eamon Lynch and Arwyn Thomas were sacked because of their trade union activities.

'Absolute nonsense'

Both men have taken a case of unfair dismissal to an employment tribunal.

LU said it was "absolute nonsense" to suggest the men were dismissed because of their union activities.

It added that Mr Thomas was dismissed over "abusive behaviour" towards his colleagues and Mr Lynch was sacked because he "over-rode his train's safety systems and drove the train with complete disregard for established procedures".

LU managing director Mike Brown said: "Just 29% of the 1,300 drivers balloted voted for this strike.

"The cases concerned are still going through the employment tribunal process and Transport for London will, of course, respond to whatever conclusions are reached in this process.

'Irresponsible and idiotic'

He said the RMT leadership seems determined to disrupt London and its economy over several days.

London mayor Boris Johnson said: "Even by the grim standards of the RMT leadership, the series of strikes they are now seeking to inflict on their members and fellow Londoners are unbelievable.

"Most train drivers did not vote for this action, no-one in London will support them, and to pre-empt the results of an industrial tribunal by resorting to industrial confrontation is immoral, irresponsible and idiotic."

Drivers on the Northern and Bakerloo Line held two strikes last year over the dismissals.

I love the way the dates fall so that the whole week is ruined for commuters, but there are still 2 "working" days:

STRIKE DATES

16 - 17 May: 2101 - 1159 BST

18 - 19 May: 1200 - 1159 BST

20 May: 1200 - 2100 BST

13 - 14 June: 2101 - 1159 BST

15 - 16 June: 1200 - 1159 BST

17 June: 1200 - 2100 BST

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BBC

How does the RMT get away with inflicting chaos on millions, with the votes of less than 400 people?

Sure to do wonders for "growth":

I love the way the dates fall so that the whole week is ruined for commuters, but there are still 2 "working" days:

The RMT doesn't impose chaos on millions - the regularly provide order to them, and on these days aren't doing so.

Which is fine, nobody is owed anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The following rail systems around the world have 100% driver free automated trains and rolling stock:

* Denmark Copenhagen Metro

* Spain Barcelona Metro line 9 and Barcelona Metro line 10

* France Paris Métro Line 14

* France Rennes Metro - VAL type system.

* France Toulouse Metro - VAL type system.

* France Lille Metro

* Germany Nuremberg U-Bahn - U3 and U2 lines (manned trains in case of need)

* Switzerland Lausanne Metro - line M2

* United States Metromover in Miami, Florida

* United States Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit in Morgantown,

* United States Las Vegas Monorail in Las Vegas, Nevada

* Canada SkyTrain in Vancouver, BC —

* Brazil São Paulo Metro - Line 4 - Yellow

* Hong Kong Disneyland Resort Line

* Malaysia Kelana Jaya Line

* Singapore Light Rail Transit

* United Arab Emirates Dubai Metro

* South Korea Korea - Busan – Gimhae

The RMT should take into account all of the above when deciding on industrial action as sooner or later somebody will get fed up hand out a ton of P45s and introduce automated trains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The following rail systems around the world have 100% driver free automated trains and rolling stock:

* Denmark Copenhagen Metro

* Spain Barcelona Metro line 9 and Barcelona Metro line 10

* France Paris Métro Line 14

* France Rennes Metro - VAL type system.

* France Toulouse Metro - VAL type system.

* France Lille Metro

* Germany Nuremberg U-Bahn - U3 and U2 lines (manned trains in case of need)

* Switzerland Lausanne Metro - line M2

* United States Metromover in Miami, Florida

* United States Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit in Morgantown,

* United States Las Vegas Monorail in Las Vegas, Nevada

* Canada SkyTrain in Vancouver, BC —

* Brazil São Paulo Metro - Line 4 - Yellow

* Hong Kong Disneyland Resort Line

* Malaysia Kelana Jaya Line

* Singapore Light Rail Transit

* United Arab Emirates Dubai Metro

* South Korea Korea - Busan – Gimhae

The RMT should take into account all of the above when deciding on industrial action as sooner or later somebody will get fed up hand out a ton of P45s and introduce automated trains.

Can't hand out P45s as it's against their human rights innit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RMT doesn't impose chaos on millions - the regularly provide order to them, and on these days aren't doing so.

TFL provide the service, the RMT prevent/ restrict it.

Isn't the bit in bold just the same as saying they are causing chaos anyway?

Which is fine, nobody is owed anything.

What about people that have paid for a service in advance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TFL provide the service, the RMT prevent/ restrict it.

Isn't the bit in bold just the same as saying they are causing chaos anyway?

Nope. The tube drivers provide usually the service. On these days they aren;t.

Your position is based on the drivers being there by default and amiss when they are absent. Poor logic.

What about people that have paid for a service in advance?

What about them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta love Bob "four legs bad, two legs better" Crowe.. I'm sure he won't be losing any days pay when they go on strike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its about time these people were sacked wholesale. If they're not prepared to come in and work, get rid of them and bring in people who are.

Ronald Regan did it with the air traffic controllers in the 80s. Time to do the same here.

And if you think this is bad, wait till the Olympics next year. The unions demands will be incredible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope. The tube drivers provide usually the service.

Why are they doing that?

On these days they aren;t.

Why aren't they?

Your position is based on the drivers being there by default and amiss when they are absent. Poor logic.

No, my position is based on the drivers providing the service for which they are remunerated, and a lot of people rely on. It is also based on my feeling that RMT and Bob Crow call strikes out of spite and greed, not for the good of their members (apparently less than 30% voted for the strike). Your assumption of my position is based on poor logic.

What about them?

Now you are being obtuse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ronald Regan did it with the air traffic controllers in the 80s. Time to do the same here.

As above automated trains are coming to London and soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are they doing that?

because they've decided not to.

Why aren't they?

Because they've decided not to.

No, my position is based on the drivers providing the service for which they are remunerated, and a lot of people rely on. It is also based on my feeling that RMT and Bob Crow call strikes out of spite and greed, not for the good of their members (apparently less than 30% voted for the strike). Your assumption of my position is based on poor logic.

Not going to work of a morning is a perfectly valid choice. No one owes you a train ride.

Now you are being obtuse.

Not at all. If you've got an agreement with the train company, then go and see them for a refund. As you've already stated, the drivers aren't involved in that, they have a seperate relationship with the company.

Seriously - no one owes you anything. If the people who normally do something for you stop, there is no issue at all. You'll just have to sort something else out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RMT doesn't impose chaos on millions - the regularly provide order to them, and on these days aren't doing so.

Which is fine, nobody is owed anything.

I completely agree. If anything I would say stop the rail companys funding from the government, allow the train comanys to go bust due to there staffs high wage demands and allow other companys to come in that can manage costs more effectivly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idiots who allow(ed) London to be brought to a standstill by 400 people are the same idiots who ensure(d) thousands of local government officers have pension pots worth over £1million, are the same idiots who ensure(d) Fred Goodwin was given a thankyou gift of over £15 million for his part in ruining the UK, are the same idiots who think it's a good idea to allow(ed) millions into the UK who have no intention of ever integrating and don't like the UK's culture, are the same idiots who think it's a great idea to spend tax-payers' money on translating government services into 50 different languages..... the list is endless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idiots who allow(ed) London to be brought to a standstill by 400 people are the same idiots who ensure(d) thousands of local government officers have pension pots worth over £1million, are the same idiots who ensure(d) Fred Goodwin was given a thankyou gift of over £15 million for his part in ruining the UK, are the same idiots who think it's a good idea to allow(ed) millions into the UK who have no intention of ever integrating and don't like the UK's culture, are the same idiots who think it's a great idea to spend tax-payers' money on translating government services into 50 different languages..... the list is endless.

So I guess you mean all of us? None of us stopped it after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new signalling system (contract awarded in April) to be used on Circle, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines will allow driver-less operation (the driver is only required to open and close doors they don't actually drive the train in the current spec, but this can be upgraded in the future)

The system recently installed on the Victoria line and being installed on the jubilee line will turn drivers into door operators too.

The central sections of Thameslink and Crossrail will be automated too.

Boris wasn't mad when talking about driverless trains in London the last time they threatened to strike.

They are installing the capability first to give them selves the upper hand when the time comes.

The following rail systems around the world have 100% driver free automated trains and rolling stock:

* Denmark Copenhagen Metro

* Spain Barcelona Metro line 9 and Barcelona Metro line 10

* France Paris Métro Line 14

* France Rennes Metro - VAL type system.

* France Toulouse Metro - VAL type system.

* France Lille Metro

* Germany Nuremberg U-Bahn - U3 and U2 lines (manned trains in case of need)

* Switzerland Lausanne Metro - line M2

* United States Metromover in Miami, Florida

* United States Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit in Morgantown,

* United States Las Vegas Monorail in Las Vegas, Nevada

* Canada SkyTrain in Vancouver, BC —

* Brazil São Paulo Metro - Line 4 - Yellow

* Hong Kong Disneyland Resort Line

* Malaysia Kelana Jaya Line

* Singapore Light Rail Transit

* United Arab Emirates Dubai Metro

* South Korea Korea - Busan – Gimhae

The RMT should take into account all of the above when deciding on industrial action as sooner or later somebody will get fed up hand out a ton of P45s and introduce automated trains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new signalling system (contract awarded in April) to be used on Circle, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines will allow driver-less operation (the driver is only required to open and close doors they don't actually drive the train in the current spec, but this can be upgraded in the future)

The system recently installed on the Victoria line and being installed on the jubilee line will turn drivers into door operators too.

The central sections of Thameslink and Crossrail will be automated too.

Boris wasn't mad when talking about driverless trains in London the last time they threatened to strike.

They are installing the capability first to give them selves the upper hand when the time comes.

What? Why have they completely automated it except for the door opening and closing? Surely this would be a relatively easy part to automate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? Why have they completely automated it except for the door opening and closing? Surely this would be a relatively easy part to automate?

I'd imagine it's to do with customers feelings of safety, given that bad people have made them go boom relatively recently. Human operated is more comforting if osamas little minions come a calling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd imagine it's to do with customers feelings of safety, given that bad people have made them go boom relatively recently. Human operated is more comforting if osamas little minions come a calling.

I suppose it’s the same with airplanes. Seems a shame to have all that automation and still rely on a human to fill a useless and uninteresting task like opening doors when they don’t actually have to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

because they've decided not to.

Because they've decided not to.

Not going to work of a morning is a perfectly valid choice. No one owes you a train ride.

Not at all. If you've got an agreement with the train company, then go and see them for a refund. As you've already stated, the drivers aren't involved in that, they have a seperate relationship with the company.

Seriously - no one owes you anything. If the people who normally do something for you stop, there is no issue at all. You'll just have to sort something else out.

The strike is about greed and selfishness of the few, holding the many to ranson.

Whilst I do agree no one owes me anything, I don't really agree with your attitude (if we assume humans have moved slightly beyond basic primal instincts to form some kind on society). If the human race were always unhelpful and un-cooperative, the world would a pretty miserable place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The strike is about greed and selfishness of the few, holding the many to ranson.

Right. And?

Whilst I do agree no one owes me anything, I don't really agree with your attitude (if we assume humans have moved slightly beyond basic primal instincts to form some kind on society). If the human race were always unhelpful and un-cooperative, the world would a pretty miserable place.

And if they always did what they were told by a boss and never tried to begotiate, it's be a complete basard nightmare.

Don't get me wrong - the RMT is crack smoking if they think they can keep doing this, the future is bright, shiny and robotic. I just think they are perfectly within their rights to down tools and be that daft if they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The strike is about greed and selfishness of the few, holding the many to ranson.

Whilst I do agree no one owes me anything, I don't really agree with your attitude (if we assume humans have moved slightly beyond basic primal instincts to form some kind on society). If the human race were always unhelpful and un-cooperative, the world would a pretty miserable place.

I think that it is in human nature to be helpful and co-operative, indeed our survival as a species has relied on this for most of our existence.

Society breaks down when our interactions are no longer seen as being voluntary. I think that we are getting closer to this point than we have been in a long time.

Edit : spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? Why have they completely automated it except for the door opening and closing? Surely this would be a relatively easy part to automate?

Maybe because the hard part of the automation is dealing with the drivers (i.e. make them understand that they are no longer needed)?

Tell them you're obsolete, and they'll go on strike.

Turn them into glorified doormen first (but keep them on hand "just in case") and after a few year's, public support will disappear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair we dont have all the information we need to make a clear judgement

Is this union officials who are crap at driving trying to use their union status to hold on their job? or;

Is this TFL using a safety incident to get rid of a troublesome union official when a normal driver would be cut more slack?

I suspect the low turnout points to the formal.

EDIT: removed duplicate word

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.