Right Said Fred & Dipstick Are Doing The Right Thing.

[DonnieDarker]

I am intendning to invest in a cloning technology and be "re-born" in about 30 years time.

Donnie V.2 will enjoy the fruits of my saving!

[Once in a lifetime]

All this tittle tattle of 20% drops, pointless. Loads of people were in temporary negative equity in the early ninties and most of em came through none the worse for wear.

Those lines have to be the biggest load of ballsh!t I've ever read on this forum.

[mercsl]

How we going to have a crash with all these HPC bears buying places?????

Maybe a nice Dr Bubb graph with the number of bears who have turned to the dark side over time would be nice.

Reality is for most people life goes on and they simply do not have the patience to wait like some of the people on here.

[Without_a_Paddle]

Why buy in a Property market which is:

+ Still expensive,

+ Where renting is cheaper than owning,

+ Which is still falling,

+ When the UK economy is on the brink of recession,

+ Where there is enormous supply of unsold homes overhanging the market, and

+ The crowd is beginning to turn against owning.

The only argument, is the emotional one, which holds no water for me anyway

I agree with all this for a FTB in 2005.

I waited for FIVE years in 1990 to FTB in 1995. My colleagues who started at the same time as me bought tiny 1 bed flats in 1990.

They were 'emotionally' happy for a while and talked about decorating and choosing curtains and carpets etc.

Two years down the line they were unhappy as it dawned on them that their flats were losing money each month which effectively slashed their income. After 4 years they were in serious negative equity and were trapped and bitter.

I then was able to stop renting a 2 bed property and buy a 3 bed house for the same money as their flat. (and I wasn't £30k in negative equity either)

Emotion shouldn't come into it BTW. Save that for when you OWN the property.

[Waiting Patiently]

.....I waited for FIVE years in 1990 to FTB in 1995. .......

Excellent timing. 95 was the bottom of the market in most parts of the UK though I recall that the biggest falls took place between late 89 and 92 then drifted lower for the next 3 years.

So for those who dont want to wait 5 years, if the crash shapes up like the last one, there should be considerable reductions on current prices within the next year or two.

[beerhunter]

I agree with all this for a FTB in 2005.

I waited for FIVE years in 1990 to FTB in 1995. My colleagues who started at the same time as me bought tiny 1 bed flats in 1990.

They were 'emotionally' happy for a while and talked about decorating and choosing curtains and carpets etc.

Two years down the line they were unhappy as it dawned on them that their flats were losing money each month which effectively slashed their income. After 4 years they were in serious negative equity and were trapped and bitter.

I then was able to stop renting a 2 bed property and buy a 3 bed house for the same money as their flat. (and I wasn't £30k in negative equity either)

Thanks for posting that... it's exactly what I'm seeing other friends doing now, and exactly why I'm waiting.

Emotion shouldn't come into it BTW. Save that for when you OWN the property.

Exactly!

The trouble is that advertising / shops in general (not just housing) use emotion to sell, and thats exactly why you shouldn't treat buying (anything) as an emotional subject, otherwise your just putty in their grubby hands.

[Elizabeth]

In some respects I would agree with you however HPC members do have special responsibilities. When a member of HPC buys a house (in the current market) this is tantamount to self abuse. As such the act should be carried out furtively and in secret. For these people to come on the site and publicly declare that they have taken up *****g is just not on.

Mate. Mate. Mate. We're here cause we can't afford to buy. At the point that it makes financial and emotional sense then... go for it. Dogbox, just do it!

I'm not part of a 'HPC Union' and I am not going to stay on strike indefinitely, just cause others haven't got a reasonable deal yet. If I have then I will go for it. And there is a balance. It's got to go down and it will go down, and the television programme on tonight will have far more impact than dogbox Dipstick and RF (did you get a good deal DBDS?)

Also I don't think people should have to act liked they have given birth to an illegitimate child in the 1950s... We're in 2005 for f*ks sake...

DON'T turn my home into something only to be viewed in a grubby mac!!!!!!

Edited September 27, 2005 by Elizabeth

[dipstick]

To be honest I don't think emotion (for those who have mentioned it) has got anything to do with it.

Mine is based on a personal circumstances and a financial decision.

Freds is based on personal responsibility.

I don't think anybody is running about yelling "We've cracked we've got to buy NOW at ANY price"!

I personal feel I have got a fair deal, one that I certainly wouldn't have had a look in at getting last year.

I definitely wouldn't advise anybody to buy now unless they had to or had got a property at a realistic price that they could relatively easily afford.

House prices are going to fall further, a lot further, but to simply look at everything via one perspective sort of undermines us as people. We all have to make choices and take responsibility for our actions.

If I had a decent place to rent, where I could work and live relatively normally, perhaps (and I do mean perhaps) I would have waited a little longer. But to suggest I am "giving up" is a quite a bit insulting considering what I have been through. i.e. threatened by landlords, having faulty electric and my PC bursting into flames, living with rats (and they weren't my pets), having guys with shotguns wandering round.

Renting for me at least has been a bluddy nightmare. I went with the "let somebody else take responsibility" theme when I first set out. Yeah right. Responsibility or control?

For those of you for whom it is working, Good Luck, and I do mean that. Hang out until you feel "safe" to take the plunge and when you do I wish you all you wish for yourselves.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Buying now is a severe financial error in my opinion, but then I already own my own place, so who am I to judge. My tip is wait 11-12 months - that's when you'll start to see the prices tumble - if they don't start dropping heavily by then, I'll eat my hat. If you've stuck it out for a few years already, isn't it common sense to wait another 11-12 months?

Edited September 27, 2005 by gruffydd

[Elizabeth]

I don't think anybody is running about yelling "We've cracked we've got to buy NOW at ANY price"!

Good one!

[Guest magnoliawalls]

If I had a decent place to rent, where I could work and live relatively normally, perhaps (and I do mean perhaps) I would have waited a little longer. But to suggest I am "giving up" is a quite a bit insulting considering what I have been through. i.e. threatened by landlords, having faulty electric and my PC bursting into flames, living with rats (and they weren't my pets), having guys with shotguns wandering round.

Renting for me at least has been a bluddy nightmare. I went with the "let somebody else take responsibility" theme when I first set out. Yeah right. Responsibility or control?

For those of you for whom it is working, Good Luck, and I do mean that. Hang out until you feel "safe" to take the plunge and when you do I wish you all you wish for yourselves.

Well said Dipstick - also the bit about personal circumstances and personal responsibilities.

Many people here have been lucky in their rental arrangements - for me it has also been nothing but hassle and I have spent too much of my time arguing about persistant problems with plumbing etc.

I have no intention of buying just now but I can see why it is the right decision for you. Hope you keep posting.

[dipstick]

To be honest Magnolia the tightening up on regulation regarding rental properties is a subject close to my heart.

Yes, from a paper perspective it is currently more financially viable. But there needs to be an awful lot more done to protect tenants.

We hear a lot about the tenants from hell, but what about the landlords from hell and the letting agents from the same location?

Landlords don't have to be members of any professional association, in a lot of cases the only way you can retrieve losses is through the courts (and if you're and STR to have money in the bank so have to pay). The professional bodies who some agents are affiliated to (by choice only)are paid for by the agents themselves and it takes them that long to act and their powers so weak their very existence is a waste of time.

The government have been quite content to watch the BTL market do more than it's fair share to push the housing market up. They have reaped the benefits and should now put energy into providing equitable legislation to cover good and reasonable tenants.

[beerhunter]

To be honest I don't think emotion (for those who have mentioned it) has got anything to do with it.

Mine is based on a personal circumstances and a financial decision.

Freds is based on personal responsibility.

Firstly I congratulate you and Fred on your new homes... only you know your circumstances, and I assume (from reading and posting here) that you are wise and responsible about it.

Regarding emotion, maybe not you, but the pubic in general it does matter.

If I had a decent place to rent, where I could work and live relatively normally, perhaps (and I do mean perhaps) I would have waited a little longer.

But to suggest I am "giving up" is a quite a bit insulting considering what I have been through. i.e. threatened by landlords, having faulty electric and my PC bursting into flames, living with rats (and they weren't my pets), having guys with shotguns wandering round.

Interesting snippet... renting iis not alway like that... and I can see why you want to move on... I would too.

For those of you for whom it is working, Good Luck, and I do mean that. Hang out until you feel "safe" to take the plunge and when you do I wish you all you wish for yourselves.

Thanks and good luck to you too.

I hope you (and Fred) stick around, after all how will we know how much it costs (say) to lino the kitchen, or get the bathroom tiled, or how often we need to cut the grass ... some of us don't get out from HPC much

Joking aside, it's a serious comment: As a FTB how do you budget / organise for the stuff you need when you move in to your bought place?

Me, I've purposely moved from a furnished rental to unfurnished... and as I rent and save, I spend a bit furnishing.. it took a couple of years but now I'm "fully furnished" myself... and when I buy I have less immediate costs (apart from a cooker, washing machine and perhaps curtains... I wouldn't immediately need anything else I think).

[beerhunter]

Good idea, but, I sound like my gran, you don't need furniture at first. I remember a few glorious, happy weeks in my first (beautiful) flat armed only with a lilo, a kettle and a radio.

True you don't immediately need furniture.. and i my case it was a folding chair, kettle, a couple of PCs, TV, oscilloscope, bench power supply, signal generator, a CP/M machine... all the normal day to day stuff

You do need some stuff... but your right, it's fun to make do.

However you have to spend at some point... and while the rent is cheap, and the savings are piling up... better now, than when you just have made the biggest purchase in your life

I speak from friends experiences... those that have bought recently... for some reason they no longer like to go out or spend any money... but also as they are friends

[Catch22]

The only argument, is the emotional one, which holds no water for me anyway

hit the nail on the head there Doc. The poor buggers have been sold this bag of crock by the money lenders via that little mind control box sat in the corner of the living room.

Its bricks and mortar, wires and pipes, it is not life its self its there to serve not to enslave.......alas they are but lambs to the slaughter.

Dip and RFD excluded .....but we are gonna have to watch Donnie.........DONNIE we are watching you

Edited September 27, 2005 by Catch22

[Marina]

Before I STRed I had a very nice property - I had done loads of work on it and it was everything I want. And it had a nice, big, completely private garden - a nice hideaway as Dogbox initially described.

Unfortunately it was not in a rural location with no neighbours. Unfortunately an inconsiderate b@stard whose garden backed on to mine had a fecking collie that they used to leave in the garden all day when they were out at work and all night when they went out at weekends. It's constant barking nearly drove me nuts.

On the other side of the road two houses down lived a nutter who used to come out and shout at any kids playing in the street. Fortunately he moved away.

When I sold - not to get away from those people - I was bloody glad to get away from them. Okay, this doesn't happen everywhere but now I am renting my rose tinted spectacle view of owning my own property has evaporated. It just doesn't bother me anymore.

I am at an in-between stage of my life - not quite sure what my next move will be. My kids don't seem to give a toss that we moved a few weeks ago into a new rented house. My youngest lad has loads of mates here and whereas where we lived before we were endlessly entertaining him and running him here, there and everywhere - here we never see him. At weekends he is out playing all day - just as he should be.

[TheEmperorHasNoClothes]

A home is a special place where you decide who long and what colour. Renting is a sad and sorry existence regardless of how many silly little pennies it saves (apart from unavoidable work related renting stints etc).

No No No No! :angry: Renting is excellent. Because:

• You don't have to worry about fixing that leak in the roof

• You can move without shelling out £1000's for solictors fees, stamp duty etc. etc.

• You could move once a year if you like, try a few different areas out

• Its cheaper PCM than a mortgage

• You can have a room, a flat, a house or a mantion

[dipstick]

Well in addition to HPC giving us new found knowledge regarding the economics of our predicament I think it also opens our eyes to the circumstances of others. And if we are lucky allows us to empathise and appreciate the pluses and minuses.

Some people have been lucky in the properties they are renting. I envy you. It has given you the freedom of choice to make your plans and live your life.

This site has also made me appreciate the problems of FTB's for whom the future regarding their own home must seem bleak. But not as bleak now as the past couple of years!

Afraid I was an FTB over 23 years ago. In fact I actually rented for 5 years prior to that. A basic place, but cheap and definitely home. I wouldn't (couldn't) have even considered buying at that time. But rentals then were far less tied up with red tape and insecurities. I had a rent book, paid up and stayed till I wanted to leave. It seemed to work just fine.

I furnished that place primarily by cadging by the way.

It's always the cheapest way to do anything. Don't let anybody you know throw anything away, always have a rummage first!

And don't borrow unless you have to. Try and remember this when you walk into the store and see the wide screen tv or the squidgy leather sofa, "How much would I get for it second hand if I had to sell it the day after I bought it". I can enlighten you. A fraction of the price.

As you get older emotion does play a larger part. You have plans and are taught "what to expect". To be denied that, as is the case for many today, is a bitter pill to swallow. Our society and government has bred us to believe that if we work hard we can expect payment in kind. Unfortunately now this is not the truth.

Although I bought my first house in 1982, when in fact times were hard, I didn't really notice it. Yes paying the mortgage as opposed to £6 a week rent (including rates) was difficult, but certainly not impossible. And more to the point we were not denied the opportunity of making that step at all.

I've had good neighbours and bad. But my experiences of renting have allowed others to have control over many aspects of my life which I am uncomfortable with to say the least. My finances (because I made a good call over the last house I bought/sold) allow me to buy a place for cash. The timing and market now allows me to buy a place for cash allowing me to regain control over some aspects of my life at least. This is what is important to me.

[Marina]

Well in addition to HPC giving us new found knowledge regarding the economics of our predicament I think it also opens our eyes to the circumstances of others. And if we are lucky allows us to empathise and appreciate the pluses and minuses.

Some people have been lucky in the properties they are renting. I envy you. It has given you the freedom of choice to make your plans and live your life.

This site has also made me appreciate the problems of FTB's for whom the future regarding their own home must seem bleak. But not as bleak now as the past couple of years!

Afraid I was an FTB over 23 years ago. In fact I actually rented for 5 years prior to that. A basic place, but cheap and definitely home. I wouldn't (couldn't) have even considered buying at that time. But rentals then were far less tied up with red tape and insecurities. I had a rent book, paid up and stayed till I wanted to leave. It seemed to work just fine.

I furnished that place primarily by cadging by the way.

It's always the cheapest way to do anything. Don't let anybody you know throw anything away, always have a rummage first!

And don't borrow unless you have to. Try and remember this when you walk into the store and see the wide screen tv or the squidgy leather sofa, "How much would I get for it second hand if I had to sell it the day after I bought it". I can enlighten you. A fraction of the price.

As you get older emotion does play a larger part. You have plans and are taught "what to expect". To be denied that, as is the case for many today, is a bitter pill to swallow. Our society and government has bred us to believe that if we work hard we can expect payment in kind. Unfortunately now this is not the truth.

Although I bought my first house in 1982, when in fact times were hard, I didn't really notice it. Yes paying the mortgage as opposed to £6 a week rent (including rates) was difficult, but certainly not impossible. And more to the point we were not denied the opportunity of making that step at all.

I've had good neighbours and bad. But my experiences of renting have allowed others to have control over many aspects of my life which I am uncomfortable with to say the least. My finances (because I made a good call over the last house I bought/sold) allow me to buy a place for cash. The timing and market now allows me to buy a place for cash allowing me to regain control over some aspects of my life at least. This is what is important to me.

Obviously everyone's situation is different. I can quite easily afford a place for cash. But I have a nagging feeling I'll get it for a 100k less in a couple of years (assuming I stay in this country). And, if that is the case, that 100k will come in handy in terms of retirement planning. In 10 years time I'll be living in a house - but did I pay 500k for it or 400k?

[dipstick]

Marina if I ever consider buying a house for 500k or even 400k please feel free to have me certified.

I'd emigrate first!

Mines just cost me 70k and it's more than enough!

[THE MONKEY]

Right Fred's Dead and Dipstick are just two of the millions and millions of the Monkey's fans who miss the Great One so much that they will buy a house so that they can join the Monkey in the green and pleasant land that is Channel 4 Homes.

Edited September 28, 2005 by THE MONKEY

[right_freds_dead]

Right Said Fred and Dipstick are just two of the millions and millions of the Monkey's fans who miss the Great One so much that they will buy a house so that they can join the Monkey in the green and pleasant land that is Channel 4 Homes.

: ) !!!

thanks, but those uber-bulls are not for me. im still ok with a crash - despite trying to purchase. as long as i can pay the monthly im not bothered about asset value and making money. i think thats the difference between me and them. negative equity wont bother me. im buying for life.

i am a victim of them. i do not wish to join them. it has to be the largest collection of blind monkeys in one forum. plus its really slow and crashy and most vested.

if it were up to them, they would lend us into a recession. the forum should be renamed.

the im alright jack forum of greed mongers.

Edited September 28, 2005 by right_freds_dead

[theChuz]

Right Fred's Dead and Dipstick are just two of the millions and millions of the Monkey's fans who miss the Great One so much that they will buy a house so that they can join the Monkey in the green and pleasant land that is Channel 4 Homes.

ewww, you dont frequent _there_ do you?

[DonnieDarker]

Dip and RFD excluded .....but we are gonna have to watch Donnie.........DONNIE we are watching you

What have I done?!

[Catch22]

ewww, you dont frequent _there_ do you?

RFD is a victim of circumstance, whereas monkey is a primate who bought an expensive overvalued cage of his own, because he could afford to ....its what monkey's do

Sorry DD I've just notice your post, well you said if you bought a house you could not/would not sell it to go STR whatever the circumstance, which means you display the early signs of IEAS

Edited September 28, 2005 by Catch22