Right Said Fred & Dipstick Are Doing The Right Thing.

[dogbox]

Investing in UK property to make money might not be so clever currently, but buying a home is a different kettle of Squid.

Well done, those now taking the plunge. Who gives a sh1t about possibly saving some money by waiting, there is more to life than money and bean counting.

Join me my freinds. I love, love, love my home, and cant express the happiness it gives me every day. Just to kick back and relax in your own home, the worries of the world far far away....ahhhh.

Your very own home where you call the shots. A garden in which you can create your own secret special space.

Well done for finding the courage, it takes a lot for people of a bearish nature to conquer thier fears.

All this tittle tattle of 20% drops, pointless. Loads of people were in temporary negative equity in the early ninties and most of em came through none the worse for wear.

A home is a special place where you decide who long and what colour. Renting is a sad and sorry existence regardless of how many silly little pennies it saves (apart from unavoidable work related renting stints etc).

Welcome freinds and enjoy.

[FrozenOut]

Investing in UK property to make money might not be so clever currently, but buying a home is a different kettle of Squid.

Well done, those now taking the plunge. Who gives a sh1t about possibly saving some money by waiting, there is more to life than money and bean counting.

Join me my freinds. I love, love, love my home, and cant express the happiness it gives me every day. Just to kick back and relax in your own home, the worries of the world far far away....ahhhh.

Your very own home where you call the shots. A garden in which you can create your own secret special space.

Well done for finding the courage, it takes a lot for people of a bearish nature to conquer thier fears.

All this tittle tattle of 20% drops, pointless. Loads of people were in temporary negative equity in the early ninties and most of em came through none the worse for wear.

A home is a special place where you decide who long and what colour. Renting is a sad and sorry existence regardless of how many silly little pennies it saves (apart from unavoidable work related renting stints etc).

Welcome freinds and enjoy.

In the future property WILL be worth less meaning I get to have:

1) Lower payments on capital borrowed due to the fact I wont be borrowing as much

2) More disposable income as a direct outcome of point one.

Your new "Home" could quite quickly become your prison.

[AteMoose]

I was talking to a friend of a flatmate last night and was talking about this last night, its important to do what makes you happy in life dont get tied down. If it makes you happy to buy, buy, but dont assume prices will continue to rise, looking at the historics they havent always. Currently it makes me very happy to live in rented accomdation, have a plentiful supply of you 19 year old girls living with me and pay peanuts for the pleasure.

It is important to do the right thing, but the right thing is different for different people, a home is a home, my home is great and only costs 225 quid a mounth all inclusive...

Edited September 27, 2005 by moosetea

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

Investing in UK property to make money might not be so clever currently, but buying a home is a different kettle of Squid.

Well done, those now taking the plunge. Who gives a sh1t about possibly saving some money by waiting, there is more to life than money and bean counting.

Join me my freinds. I love, love, love my home, and cant express the happiness it gives me every day. Just to kick back and relax in your own home, the worries of the world far far away....ahhhh.

Your very own home where you call the shots. A garden in which you can create your own secret special space.

Well done for finding the courage, it takes a lot for people of a bearish nature to conquer thier fears.

All this tittle tattle of 20% drops, pointless. Loads of people were in temporary negative equity in the early ninties and most of em came through none the worse for wear.

A home is a special place where you decide who long and what colour. Renting is a sad and sorry existence regardless of how many silly little pennies it saves (apart from unavoidable work related renting stints etc).

Welcome freinds and enjoy.

You dont own the home until you have paid for it. And paying over the odds means longer financial commitments.

[DonnieDarker]

I agree with the basic premise of Dogbox but it has a little too much chutpah for my liking.

Owning a "home" is - for the most part - a great experience.

However, I'd rather wait a couple of years and own a home that is 10-20% better!

You see, it's not as simple as saving money. That is a soulless strategy as it is an ends-to-a-means.

I don't see myself saving much at all in terms of money in the bank but what I do anticcipate is getting a lot more bricks for my buck.

So, I'll rent for another 18 months and buy somewhere nicer...later.

[dog]

Investing in UK property to make money might not be so clever currently, but buying a home is a different kettle of Squid.

Well done, those now taking the plunge. Who gives a sh1t about possibly saving some money by waiting, there is more to life than money and bean counting.

Join me my freinds. I love, love, love my home, and cant express the happiness it gives me every day. Just to kick back and relax in your own home, the worries of the world far far away....ahhhh.

Your very own home where you call the shots. A garden in which you can create your own secret special space.

Well done for finding the courage, it takes a lot for people of a bearish nature to conquer thier fears.

All this tittle tattle of 20% drops, pointless. Loads of people were in temporary negative equity in the early ninties and most of em came through none the worse for wear.

A home is a special place where you decide who long and what colour. Renting is a sad and sorry existence regardless of how many silly little pennies it saves (apart from unavoidable work related renting stints etc).

Welcome freinds and enjoy.

In some respects I would agree with you however HPC members do have special responsibilities. When a member of HPC buys a house (in the current market) this is tantamount to self abuse. As such the act should be carried out furtively and in secret. For these people to come on the site and publicly declare that they have taken up *****g is just not on.

[dogbox]

You dont own the home until you have paid for it. And paying over the odds means longer financial commitments.

Perceptions of ownership are not relevant for most people. In the end, it comes down to balance. Most of us, on balance, prefer the the increased control we can excert over our own home rather than one owned by a landlord.

Regardless of the various monetary and emmotional costs, owning is the preferred state for the majority.

I like to invest and find ways of saving money but STRing seems a very obsessive and extreme measure. Surly quality of life and family concerns are vastly more important than a possible saving as a result of a life upheavel? Is this the only way an STR can make a few quid?

However, I'd rather wait a couple of years and own a home that is 10-20% better!

The average person lives about 30000 days. About 1/3 rd will be spent asleep - 10000 days. Most of us just dont want to wait around in limbo for 1400 (2002 - 2006 say) of those precious days on Earth, those 1400 days represent 7% of your waking life including the bits when your senile.

[DonnieDarker]

Personally I cannot get my head around STRing.

I dont think I could ever do it. Once I own I will love that place.

But I still dont like the mantra "there is more to life than money and bean counting" that is gathering volume on these boards.

It's a popular saying and one that has become about as meaningful as 'property always rises in value'.

The purpose of saving money is not to knock up some record 'high score' in your bank account. It is to give yourself and your family opportunities.

For example, by waiting for another 18-24 months if the market continue to go the way it has been I will have given myself the opportunity to do some of the following:

- send future child(ren) to private school

- enjoy skiing holidays with family every year until child(ren) leave home

- insure that I am in a position to stay in my desired location for life (upgrade in 10-15 years from flat to house)

Saving, bean-counting, whatever, is not quite the empty-hearted pursuit some on here would make you believe. It will buy you opportunities that may not exist otherwise.

Timing is everything.

[dogbox]

RE - POST, Ive f3cked - up the reply to Donnie. Here's my reply;

The average person lives about 30000 days. About 1/3 rd will be spent asleep - 10000 days. Most of us just dont want to wait around in limbo for 1400 (2002 - 2006 say) of those precious days on Earth, those 1400 days represent 7% of your waking life including the bits when your senile.

[right_freds_dead]

i was forced into it by circumstance. i reckon if you have the energy and comfortable rental accom not buying is STILL the best option.

my personal property circumstance plane burst into flames. i cant do anything other than bail out and hope the parachute works. ill soon be floating among the other housing 'daredevils' and im hoping this so called parachute really works.

you shoulda seen those EAs move !!!!!

i need a home. its a shame its coupled to a suicide investment.

i still have to do it.

[apom]

In the future property WILL be worth less meaning I get to have:

1) Lower payments on capital borrowed due to the fact I wont be borrowing as much

2) More disposable income as a direct outcome of point one.

Your new "Home" could quite quickly become your prison.

Prison,, Thats right a lack of freedom. Massive debt and negative economy.. Unable to move on.. struggling against high debt repayments..

£30,000 does not seem a lot of money in housing terms.. But it is a hell of a lot of money when you have to find it when you need to move..

Negative equity..

I know too many people who were crippled by this the last time.

[DonnieDarker]

Why does renting have to be described as 'limbo'?

If you rent somehwere nice you can enjoy most of the superfircialities of home-owning anyway: furniture picking, etc. etc.

In my age-group 20-somethings, renting is not sneered at at all. Just as owning is not worshipped. The quality fo where you live does have a certain cache though as people will be keen to visit.

Renting somewhere wretched is a kind of limbo I'll agree that much and I don't have the stomach for it anymore.

Surely renting somewhere nice and having that extra cash to have a social life, enjoy cultural events, have holidays is less of a limbo than being totally committed to your home and worrying about what varnish the coffee table needs?

Don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to all that stuff but I just dont see why renting had to be frowned upon.

[ianbeale]

i was forced into it by circumstance. i reckon if you have the energy and comfortable rental accom not buying is STILL the best option.

my personal property circumstance plane burst into flames. i cant do anything other than bail out and hope the parachute works. ill soon be floating among the other housing 'daredevils' and im hoping this so called parachute really works.

you shoulda seen those EAs move !!!!!

i need a home. its a shame its coupled to a suicide investment.

i still have to do it.

Please keep us posted RSF on your purchase, it will be interesting to observe a vetrean HPCer who has defected over the next few months. Perhaps an accepted offer on a house in a falling market will focus your mind. I for the life of me cannot see how buying a house with a potential massive downside is a thing you "have to do". Still crack on, its your money.

[liquid]

Donnie,

You give a good example of an oxymoron here.

But I still dont like the mantra "there is more to life than money and bean counting" that is gathering volume on these boards.

Then...

The purpose of saving money is not to knock up some record 'high score' in your bank account. It is to give yourself and your family opportunities.

Some folks are at the stage where you would like to be, thus they have counted their beans and can start to spend it much as you intend to.

[DonnieDarker]

The only argument, is the emotional one, which holds no water for me anyway

If only everyone was as logical as Dr and Mrs Dr Bubb.

Fortunately for me Mrs DD has taken to bearishness like a duck-to-water. I think the best decision I have made (financially) recently was to agree to sign a 2 year rental contract beginning mid-October.

It has completely removed the possibility of moving for at least 14 months. This quickly shuts up parents, future in-laws and our own consciences.

We have made our decision and will have to live by it now.

[karhu]

The only argument, is the emotional one, which holds no water for me anyway

Agreed. I sold my house two years ago and am very happy renting. Whenever anything needs fixing I phone the landlady up and they solve it while I am at work furthering my career and making money. I can also relax at weekends rather than going to B&Q and spending all day on a step ladder. When the market reequilibrates after this boom I'll buy again and not before. K.

[dogbox]

Why buy in a Property market which is:

The only argument, is the emotional one, which holds no water for me anyway

The emotional imperative is THE key argument for us Humans.

I agree that UK real estate as a pure investment is a bum deal, but almost no amount of cash saving could entice me to rent, for me thats an emmotionally Bankcrupt existence.

Like others says, its personal choice, but for me and the majority, renting is a bridge to far unless youre carefree and young (under 25).

?

[dipstick]

At what point do HPC'ers get permission to "defect"?

Should we set a regulation that you are not allowed to post until you can secure a property that is 40% lower than it would be at todays date?

The point that a lot of people are missing is that personal circumstances sometimes out weigh other values.

Fred's loyalties at the moment lie with his family. He is not a stupid person. He is being a loyal and responsible adult whilst still seeing the risks and facing up to what he has to do. He deserves your support not your uninformed derision.

Being a grown up means that you have to do what you have to do not what you want to do. And if a lot of home buyers in this country had lived by this adage then we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.

House prices are now "stalling" for want of a better word. Yes, of course there will be bigger reductions and bigger bargains and small millstones. But unemployment and price rises in other areas are becoming the watch words. It is starting, for some, to be a case of what you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts.

From here on in I would imagine that HPC'ers will start to buy. Only in small numbers at first but it will gradually happen.

I've been on the rental circuit for nearly 2 years now. I don't think I should ask permission to leave. I've served my time.

[dogbox]

After a day of the sweats, visions of all the worse bear scenarios, housing is a pyramid and it becomes as obvious to everyone as the dotcom bubble was with subsequent rout, a sterling collapse, a credit squeeze with double digit interest rates, 90% nominal falls, collapse of a major high street bank with a derivatives blowout, a succession of dirty b*mbs in London and New York ... well, I very embarassingly withdrew my offer.

You forgot the Asteroid possibility.

You do realise you will be a life - long bear. Mr Worry. There will always be countless negative scenarious clouding your life judgements. Id try and change if I were you, before your 30000 days on Earth are up.

[right_freds_dead]

a sterling collapse, a credit squeeze with double digit interest rates, 90% nominal falls, collapse of a major high street bank with a derivatives blowout, a succession of dirty b*mbs in London and New York ... well, I very embarassingly withdrew my offer.

suppose all this happens anyway and you are renting and saving.

how would your life be any better than someone with a mortgage ?

granted - you would have the pick of bargain properties to choose from, but your still going to suffer the same times as the rest of the population. your money will not protect you unless you pull out of uk life.....and head to telford !!

in the event of total melt down id go bankrupt and be classed as homeless in the eyes of councils and housing associations. id get the flat i get now - probably.

the more i get into it the more sense it makes. hey - im becoming a bull.

mooooooo !!!!

someone shoot me.

[dipstick]

I think that would be me Durch

I meant the mad cow bit. You edited your post!

Edited September 27, 2005 by dipstick

[IPOD]

in the event of total melt down id go bankrupt and be classed as homeless in the eyes of councils and housing associations. id get the flat i get now - probably.

No. To be housed by the council you have to be classed as "involuntarily homeless" and the criteria are very strict. They would have no responsibility to house you.

[aclwalker]

Changing the subject somewhat, I applaud right_freds_dead for resisting the temptation to point out that he's not called "Right Said Fred". It must be irksome that your play on words has gone unnoticed, but fear not, I noticed it and it has amused me for many months, if nobody else.

Or did you really mean "Right Said Fred", because I don't think "I'm too sexy" was the right thing to do, regardless of how much money they made.

[dogbox]

No. To be housed by the council you have to be classed as "involuntarily homeless" and the criteria are very strict. They would have no responsibility to house you.

There is always a way to get round the rules in good old welfare Britain.

Rules are for the unimaginative. When my brother got repossesed in 1991 everyone said he'd have to repay the full £50000 owed in neg' - eq' and costs. In the end the lender settled for £2500 10 years later even though he had a goodish job and lots of equity (having re - bought in c1998).

[liquid]

Why buy in a Property market which is:

+ Still expensive,

+ Where renting is cheaper than owning,

+ Which is still falling,

+ When the UK economy is on the brink of recession,

+ Where there is enormous supply of unsold homes overhanging the market, and

+ The crowd is beginning to turn against owning.

The only argument, is the emotional one, which holds no water for me anyway

DrBubb,

I’m surprised you say this, in fact, it is revealing. No-one is immortal. Thus it will hold water one day.

Let’s also get something in perspective. There have been a handful of people who have come forward recently to say they will now buy due to very personal circumstances. Yet, every bear seems to take this as negatively influencing their desired result, e.g. a UK wide downturn in prices. It cries of desperation, when that isn't the message that needs to be conveyed.