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RIGHT. I may be an old school socialist, but one thing makes me angrier than anything else........

Housing benefit amounts to the taxpayer paying the capital on someone elses speculative investment. In Glasgow, a few people I know stay on HB because it gives them a chance to stay in nice places they COULD NOT AFFORD on less than, say twelve pounds an hour. Friends on near minimum wage stay in shares /bedsits, but the unemployed can have a lovely one bed flat. I'm not exagerrating. The only way some of the rentiers can get the cash they want is to go down the HB route. AND WE PAY FOR THESE PARASITES.

This is such a monumental disgrace - it astonishes me.

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Complaints on this site about the bizzare world of HB started in earnest two years ago. Alot of fury has been vented!

And it's not landlords' benefit - no, it's mortgage lenders' benefit.

Edited by okaycuckoo

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Housing benefit is someones sick idea of social engineering. Do people earning averaeg wage really want to live in sink estates, because HB has pushed up property prices?

Take away HB and the UK housing market will tank like the US, and Ireland etc.

Bah, keep printing - I'll take my chances with a sovereign debt crisis.

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Complaints on this site about the bizzare world of HB started in earnest two years ago. Alot of fury has been vented!

And it's not landlords' benefit - no, it's mortgage lenders' benefit.

What if theyve paid the mortgage off?

Shouldnt take that long given the generosity of HB...

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I'm very right wing, but your argument is a good one, and makes me wonder if we should insist on a minimum wage of £10 an hour, or even higher.

You then cut corporation tax and the NI that employers have to pay. Fairer all round?

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RIGHT. I may be an old school socialist, but one thing makes me angrier than anything else........

Housing benefit amounts to the taxpayer paying the capital on someone elses speculative investment. In Glasgow, a few people I know stay on HB because it gives them a chance to stay in nice places they COULD NOT AFFORD on less than, say twelve pounds an hour. Friends on near minimum wage stay in shares /bedsits, but the unemployed can have a lovely one bed flat. I'm not exagerrating. The only way some of the rentiers can get the cash they want is to go down the HB route. AND WE PAY FOR THESE PARASITES.

This is such a monumental disgrace - it astonishes me.

As an old school socialist myself, I totally agree.

And as has been said above, beyond the landlords the ultimate beneficiaries are the banks.

Aspiring owner occupiers lose twice. They provide the funds to price themselves out of the market.

Bring back council housing and give us all a chance.

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Bring back council housing and give us all a chance.

Agreed the only way to sort out this sorry mess is for the Torys to do the opposite of what they did 30 years ago . They sold it all off and now pay heaps of tax payers money out to put people up in the private sector.

But I won't be holding my breath . Recently when the housing question came up on Question time , Michael Hesiltine was holding up the council right to buy policy as something great that they had done.

It has also been annonnced that new social housing tennents will have to pay 80% of the market rate for their home, In London and the south east and maybe many other parts of the country the only ones able to afford that much would not be eligable for social housing. What I have heard from the new govenment shows me they have yet to come to terms with the problem and do anything that is going to slove it in the long term.

Know a few people who have been set up for life from buying their council house at a pittence of its real value and do not blame them for doing so , if I had been a council tennent and had been given a chance to buy at a rock bottom price I too would have bought . However looking back over the last 30 years at the reasons and route causes of our present housing crisis , selling the council houses off at rock bottom prices must be up there as maybe the biggest reason we are where we are today.

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Aspiring owner occupiers lose twice. They provide the funds to price themselves out of the market.

Not twice. Three times, or four if you accept the insufficient-supply argument:

  1. In tax, to pay for housing benefit.

  2. In rents, inflated by competition with housing benefit.

  3. In house prices, inflated by competition with inflated yields for landlords.

  4. In scarcity, supported by empty properties encouraged by zero interest rates and ultra-low (by international standards) property taxes.

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As an old school socialist myself, I totally agree.

And as has been said above, beyond the landlords the ultimate beneficiaries are the banks.

Aspiring owner occupiers lose twice. They provide the funds to price themselves out of the market.

Bring back council housing and give us all a chance.

Any government interference is problematic. Council housing on a massive scale is the complete Sovietization of the Market place, and doomed to failure. Sure, the right to buy makes council housing even worse than it already is, but the idea of replacing HB with the often corrupt allocation of subsidised housing is an odd one.

We need a citizens wage to replace all other benefits. End all housing subsidies, and implement a progressive land value tax, with lower rates for UK citizens. Bring back choice in the Market place, give the advantage to those working over those claiming, give the advantage to UK citizens, and tax those with large properties far higher amounts.

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Any government interference is problematic. Council housing on a massive scale is the complete Sovietization of the Market place, and doomed to failure. Sure, the right to buy makes council housing even worse than it already is, but the idea of replacing HB with the often corrupt allocation of subsidised housing is an odd one.

We need a citizens wage to replace all other benefits. End all housing subsidies, and implement a progressive land value tax, with lower rates for UK citizens. Bring back choice in the Market place, give the advantage to those working over those claiming, give the advantage to UK citizens, and tax those with large properties far higher amounts.

If you restrict people from housing themselves you must provide housing for them else you are doomed.

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Any government interference is problematic. Council housing on a massive scale is the complete Sovietization of the Market place, and doomed to failure. Sure, the right to buy makes council housing even worse than it already is, but the idea of replacing HB with the often corrupt allocation of subsidised housing is an odd one.

We need a citizens wage to replace all other benefits. End all housing subsidies, and implement a progressive land value tax, with lower rates for UK citizens. Bring back choice in the Market place, give the advantage to those working over those claiming, give the advantage to UK citizens, and tax those with large properties far higher amounts.

I'd much prefer our new houses being built by councils, than the private sector deciding what sized 'unit' will make the most profit. The main government interferance is deciding what you can and can't build on. If we didn't have restrictive planning laws, the bubble couldn't have grown as big.

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Another HPC Housing Benefit thread full of myth and misinformation.

In Glasgow, a few people I know stay on HB because it gives them a chance to stay in nice places they COULD NOT AFFORD on less than, say twelve pounds an hour. Friends on near minimum wage stay in shares /bedsits, but the unemployed can have a lovely one bed flat.

That's untrue. If they're over 35 and living in shared accommodation or a bedsit it's because they choose to. Housing Benefit can be claimed if they are working and on a low-income (about a quarter of HB claimants are working).

'The Housing Benefit (Amendment) Regulations

2010 (S.I. No. 2010/2835)

The Rent Officers (Housing Benefit Functions)

Amendment Order 2010 (S.I. No. 2010/2836)

Report by the Social Security Advisory Committee under

Section 174(1) of the Social Security Administration Act

1992 and the statement by the Secretary of State for Work

and Pensions in accordance with Section 174(2) of that Act':

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/other/9780108509551/9780108509551.pdf

The Committee’s Report

[...snip...]

4.9 We have also seen no evidence to suggest that the vast majority of housing choices made by HB recipients have been either reckless or extravagant. Indeed, recently published research indicates that with the exception of one small group of claimants, the LHA arrangements do not unduly favour HB recipients compared to low income working households.

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As an old school socialist myself, I totally agree.

....

Bring back council housing and give us all a chance.

Agree but I don't like your solution.

We just need to free up land for building.

The market will then provide us cheaper houses and lower rents.

It really is that simple.

But our masters don't want that.

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Any government interference is problematic. Council housing on a massive scale is the complete Sovietization of the Market place, and doomed to failure. Sure, the right to buy makes council housing even worse than it already is, but the idea of replacing HB with the often corrupt allocation of subsidised housing is an odd one.

We need a citizens wage to replace all other benefits. End all housing subsidies, and implement a progressive land value tax, with lower rates for UK citizens. Bring back choice in the Market place, give the advantage to those working over those claiming, give the advantage to UK citizens, and tax those with large properties far higher amounts.

How does a progressive Land value tax actually work?

Just because a person owns some land, it does not necessarily mean that they have a huge income.

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If you are paying a large amount of post tax income in rent to someone leveraged with a state owned bank on a variable 0.5% rate under QE it does seem slighlty pointless to carry on working.

Better off on HB than working to pay out in tax, except then you have to give up work which turns out to be a bad idea for most people long term.

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Labour is the party of those taking the piss. Not just the work-shy and third world immigrants, but also now the corporations and financiers. Once Labour represented working people, now it represents the elites and the wilfully unemployed. Labour never 'got' business, instead they just sucked up to a few business elites and let most small and medium businesses go slide.

Come back a Labour party for ordinary people - not criminals and chancers.

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It has also been annonnced that new social housing tennents will have to pay 80% of the market rate for their home, In London and the south east and maybe many other parts of the country the only ones able to afford that much would not be eligable for social housing. What I have heard from the new govenment shows me they have yet to come to terms with the problem and do anything that is going to slove it in the long term.

People aren't paying 'market rent' if the floor is underpinned by HB. True market rent would be the amount working people across the income spectrum could afford to pay without HB, so if they're paying £800 per month and receiving £400 per month HB, £400 a month should be the market rent.

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The I am a "socialist but ..." really is nonsense, the basic fact is socialist policies try to allocate resources based on need which will benefit single parents and somali refugees above a single English man, capitalist policies would tend to allocate resources based on the effort that a person makes to earn their own money. "The I am a socialist but .. " person is just annoyed that the socialist meddling is favoring somebody else rather than themselves ... The real solution to the problem is to build more and the thing that holds this up is the massive nimby lobby together with a good dollop of over regulation of everything to do with construction, the nimby lobby is both labour and conservative so unless a sensible party with the policy of concreting over the green belt pops up we are stuck in a position where the rich or those poor with lots of kids are the winners ...

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A sane government would simply calculate what they are paying each month to a private landlord and with today's low interest rates use it to finance build masses of council houses. Sadly we actually had done that and had a massive council housing stock. But the Tories sold it off. And 'new' Labour 100% agreed with the Tory idea.

Mass council housing not only is far cheaper than private landlords, by adding so much supply to the market it drives prices for everyone else down. Whereas subsidizing rent does the opposite.. drives prices for everyone else up.

As Henry George noted as a city develops from the combined work and effort of its citizenry(and the global advance of technology), all of the wealth of that goes to the landowners. Well when a good 30% of the housing stock is owned by the state, that natural increase in wealth goes to the public. Sort of like we once also did with the electrical grid. It becomes more valueable wit time.

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A sane government would simply calculate what they are paying each month to a private landlord and with today's low interest rates use it to finance build masses of council houses. Sadly we actually had done that and had a massive council housing stock. But the Tories sold it off. And 'new' Labour 100% agreed with the Tory idea.

Mass council housing not only is far cheaper than private landlords, by adding so much supply to the market it drives prices for everyone else down. Whereas subsidizing rent does the opposite.. drives prices for everyone else up.

As Henry George noted as a city develops from the combined work and effort of its citizenry(and the global advance of technology), all of the wealth of that goes to the landowners. Well when a good 30% of the housing stock is owned by the state, that natural increase in wealth goes to the public. Sort of like we once also did with the electrical grid. It becomes more valueable wit time.

A sane government would close the borders, pay money to people who want to go home and get rid of all child benefits.

Then the population would reduce and housing would become dirt cheap. This would incentivise people to get off their fat arses and actually work.

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A sane government would close the borders, pay money to people who want to go home and get rid of all child benefits.

Then the population would reduce and housing would become dirt cheap.

and GDP and thus the pensions ponzi will collapse, not a particularly smart political move with the number of votes available in that group.

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The I am a "socialist but ..." really is nonsense, the basic fact is socialist policies try to allocate resources based on need which will benefit single parents and somali refugees above a single English man, capitalist policies would tend to allocate resources based on the effort that a person makes to earn their own money. "The I am a socialist but .. " person is just annoyed that the socialist meddling is favoring somebody else rather than themselves ... The real solution to the problem is to build more and the thing that holds this up is the massive nimby lobby together with a good dollop of over regulation of everything to do with construction, the nimby lobby is both labour and conservative so unless a sensible party with the policy of concreting over the green belt pops up we are stuck in a position where the rich or those poor with lots of kids are the winners ...

We've been building more for years (housing stock up 26% in 1981-2009). They get snapped up by the rich, who aspire to more. Building yet more didn't stop prices rising cruelly.

A change in taxation was what made the difference in 1989, and a more fundamental change in taxation in 1997 turned the HPI tap back on with a vengence.

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Two words ...

Thanks Labour

Rewarding the work shy whilst making those with jobs pay for them.

The Torys are complicit in this aswell, if they didnt sell the houses in the first place there would still be council housing available so the low paid could get a decent home.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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