Multinationals Increasingly Hiring Abroad, Firing At Home

[crash2006]

In the last decade, American multinational corporations, which together employ one-fifth of all U.S. workers, decreased domestic employment by 2.9 million workers while adding 2.4 million jobs overseas, the Commerce Department reported on Monday.

http://www.huffingto...e_n_851094.html

How long ill it happens here in greater numbers?

"Some argue the trend toward hiring workers abroad benefits both groups. Firms enjoy lowered manufacturing costs and an increased access to foreign markets, while consumers can purchase cheaper goods.

It's good for companies and its also in someways the unfortunate reality of our economy. Is it good for consumers? Yeah. Because you're getting higher quality product at a lower price," Niles said."

Ok sir.

Edited April 28, 2011 by crash2006

[Tiger Woods?]

"Some argue the trend toward hiring workers abroad benefits both groups. Firms enjoy lowered manufacturing costs and an increased access to foreign markets, while consumers can purchase cheaper goods.

It's good for companies and its also in someways the unfortunate reality of our economy. Is it good for consumers? Yeah. Because you're getting higher quality product at a lower price," Niles said."

One fatal flaw in that cunning plan. Can't quite put my finger on it...

[200p]

Great, so you can the latest iphone 8 for free on contract, but that won't be much use without an income to pay for it.

Flawed.

[aa3]

Its a collective action problem. Say I am the owner of a big UK company and I 'do the right thing' and only hire Brits. Once my product hits the store shelves its 5% more expensive than the companies who outsourced most of their jobs.

Guess which product customers are buying 99% of the time?

[@contradevian]

One fatal flaw in that cunning plan. Can't quite put my finger on it...

Yeh, lets discuss the Presidents birth certificate instead.

[Badlad1967]

Yeh, lets discuss the Presidents birth certificate instead.

LOL - that really made me laugh...

Sorry - I was about to go off topic but I will resist...

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Stop buying from multi-nationals.

Stop putting your money in banks.

It's all solvable

[Ruffneck]

How is the outsourced product 'higher quality' ? sucha generalisation that most of the time is false anyway.

Anyhoo my advice is to become as self sufficent as possible , pay off as much debt as you can and be prepared for a future with alot fewer jobs and opportunities (but not necessarily a standard of living lower than now - more community based living could lead to a rise in happiness and a decrease in depression)

[Ruffneck]

Its a collective action problem. Say I am the owner of a big UK company and I 'do the right thing' and only hire Brits. Once my product hits the store shelves its 5% more expensive than the companies who outsourced most of their jobs.

Guess which product customers are buying 99% of the time?

Quality still plays a role.

Snap-On still does most of their tool manufacturing in the USA , even alot of their power tools are made there.The price is top of the range.

If managers didn't expect such a high salary in comparison to those lower down the chain in the company things would be alot better than now , i remember someone posted an article from a decade or so ago listing the CEO salaries of the multinationals , it was amazing how much lower they were than they are now.They were actually reasonable back in those days , now it seems they go up 30% a year even if the company goes downhill.Since 2000 the world has truly lost the plot.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Ruffneck

[DeepLurker]

Stop buying from multi-nationals.

Stop putting your money in banks.

It's all solvable

Unfortunately, companies of all sizes indulge in outsourcing

(Anecdote: Mrs DeepLurker once worked for a SME selling "made in Europe" household goods. The "factory" was just a warehouse that received containers from China, unpacked all the goods and repacked them in new boxes proudly showing "made in Italy". I once saw these items on a shop shelf with a big "Italian-made quality" poster next to them. And no, she no longer works there, and no, she didn't report them. Needed a reference).

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Unfortunately, companies of all sizes indulge in outsourcing

(Anecdote: Mrs DeepLurker once worked for a SME selling "made in Europe" household goods. The "factory" was just a warehouse that received containers from China, unpacked all the goods and repacked them in new boxes proudly showing "made in Italy". I once saw these items on a shop shelf with a big "Italian-made quality" poster next to them. And no, she no longer works there, and no, she didn't report them. Needed a reference).

You should report them, that's blatant fraud.

[interestrateripoff]

Great, so you can the latest iphone 8 for free on contract, but that won't be much use without an income to pay for it.

Flawed.

Apparently in the new economic paradigm this isn't an issue...

[Kurt Barlow]

How is the outsourced product 'higher quality' ? sucha generalisation that most of the time is false anyway.

Anyhoo my advice is to become as self sufficent as possible , pay off as much debt as you can and be prepared for a future with alot fewer jobs and opportunities (but not necessarily a standard of living lower than now - more community based living could lead to a rise in happiness and a decrease in depression)

100% agree.

[ken_ichikawa]

Meh we should find a method to remove the somebody elses problem field which encompasses the big elephant in the room of this problem.

[wonderpup]

Unfortunately, companies of all sizes indulge in outsourcing

(Anecdote: Mrs DeepLurker once worked for a SME selling "made in Europe" household goods. The "factory" was just a warehouse that received containers from China, unpacked all the goods and repacked them in new boxes proudly showing "made in Italy". I once saw these items on a shop shelf with a big "Italian-made quality" poster next to them. And no, she no longer works there, and no, she didn't report them. Needed a reference).

I recently bought a 'hand made' item from a stand at a craft fair that on inspection had a tiny 'made in china' stamp on it. Sadly the person who sold it told me that she had in the past sold her own hand made stuff, but people wouldn't pay the price because she was more expensive than her competition, so she just had to buy the stuff in.

This, in microcosm, is the whole problem- anyone trying to hold out just gets destroyed on price by the outsourcers.

In theory hand crafted goods should have been safe, with the USP of being, well, unique. But that would require the ability to defend IP rights that most small makers just cannot do.

[ralphmalph]

I recently bought a 'hand made' item from a stand at a craft fair that on inspection had a tiny 'made in china' stamp on it. Sadly the person who sold it told me that she had in the past sold her own hand made stuff, but people wouldn't pay the price because she was more expensive than her competition, so she just had to buy the stuff in.

This, in microcosm, is the whole problem- anyone trying to hold out just gets destroyed on price by the outsourcers.

In theory hand crafted goods should have been safe, with the USP of being, well, unique. But that would require the ability to defend IP rights that most small makers just cannot do.

Get oil to 200 bucks plus a barrel and she will be able to make her own stuff competitively.

[crash2006]

Get oil to 200 bucks plus a barrel and she will be able to make her own stuff competitively.

But will there be customers once most of the jobs are offshored?

[cashinmattress]

On a similar meme, in my field we hire about 75% of engineers from abroad, simply because any Briton who chooses to say and work here is either incapable of chasing the big bucks abroad due to a physical condition, or they are just plain crap and lazy.

[mfp123]

this is the issue about getting cheaper goods and services from abroad:

the fact that things are cheap, has made things cheaper for everyone. you can get more for your money.

now this is at a cost of jobs - no different to automation, machinery, advances in IT. its been going on for 100 years.

if you make things at home in the UK - lets say a t-shirt will cost £10 more to make, and costs £10 more for us to buy.

that is taking £10 out of my pocket, and everybody elses pocket, but on the flip side more jobs are created in the UK.

now how is that any different from taxing eveyone all t-shirt sales @ £10, that tax goes to the government and the government uses that tax money to create a new nurses job, or any other job.

in essence that extra £10 cost of manufacturing in the UK, which although is supporting jobs, is borne out of my pocket and your pocket, and is no different from being taxed, to sustain someone elses job.

Edited April 29, 2011 by mfp123

[Laughing Gnome]

On a similar meme, in my field we hire about 75% of engineers from abroad, simply because any Briton who chooses to say and work here is either incapable of chasing the big bucks abroad due to a physical condition, or they are just plain crap and lazy.

You are full of it.

[awaytogo]

Its a collective action problem. Say I am the owner of a big UK company and I 'do the right thing' and only hire Brits. Once my product hits the store shelves its 5% more expensive than the companies who outsourced most of their jobs.

Guess which product customers are buying 99% of the time?

All heading towards deflation.

[mark1]

On a similar meme, in my field we hire about 75% of engineers from abroad, simply because any Briton who chooses to say and work here is either incapable of chasing the big bucks abroad due to a physical condition, or they are just plain crap and lazy.

In my field where i work abroad employers prefer to hire Britons.

Its only w4nk4s and indigenous hating socialists who come out with statements about Brit workers being useless.

[wonderpup]

this is the issue about getting cheaper goods and services from abroad:

the fact that things are cheap, has made things cheaper for everyone. you can get more for your money.

now this is at a cost of jobs - no different to automation, machinery, advances in IT. its been going on for 100 years.

if you make things at home in the UK - lets say a t-shirt will cost £10 more to make, and costs £10 more for us to buy.

that is taking £10 out of my pocket, and everybody elses pocket, but on the flip side more jobs are created in the UK.

now how is that any different from taxing eveyone all t-shirt sales @ £10, that tax goes to the government and the government uses that tax money to create a new nurses job, or any other job.

in essence that extra £10 cost of manufacturing in the UK, which although is supporting jobs, is borne out of my pocket and your pocket, and is no different from being taxed, to sustain someone elses job.

In an ideal world this sounds great- we all get cheaper stuff- but it only really works because there is the opportunity to arbitrage wages between nation states- taking jobs from high cost places and moving them to low cost places- then selling the end product back into those high cost places at a profit.

The problem is that those high cost places are expensive to live in- especially in terms of housing costs. So the benefits of being able to buy a cheap TV don't offset the high cost of living- all that happens is the wages of those in the high cost areas get driven down, while the fixed cost of living there remain high.

So the price we pay for the ability to get cheap TVs is the eventual decimation of our way of life as our jobs and wages are whittled away by cheap overseas competition.

This is why my father, who worked on a production line in a factory, was able to raise four children and keep a wife on his income, while his modern equivalent would be lucky to be able to rent a flat and support himself and a goldfish.

[FedupTeddiBear]

On a similar meme, in my field we hire about 75% of engineers from abroad, simply because any Briton who chooses to say and work here is either incapable of chasing the big bucks abroad due to a physical condition, or they are just plain crap and lazy.

Recently a cousin who qualified and lives in South Africa was one of a large number of accountants brought out here on a 3-month contract with a large multinational company to do auditing for various firms. She has not yet completed her articles but was put in charge of a small team to do the work.

I know very little about auditing but from what I understood she was shocked at the poor standard of knowledge her English counterparts / team members had - she tried to teach them what to do, left them to get on and came back to find nothing accomplished. Ended up doing most of it herself and when I saw her she was VERY stressed. I don't think she was paid a huge amount but saw this as an opportunity to see Europe (went travelling most weekends).

Make of it what you will.

[mfp123]

In an ideal world this sounds great- we all get cheaper stuff- but it only really works because there is the opportunity to arbitrage wages between nation states- taking jobs from high cost places and moving them to low cost places- then selling the end product back into those high cost places at a profit.

The problem is that those high cost places are expensive to live in- especially in terms of housing costs. So the benefits of being able to buy a cheap TV don't offset the high cost of living- all that happens is the wages of those in the high cost areas get driven down, while the fixed cost of living there remain high.

So the price we pay for the ability to get cheap TVs is the eventual decimation of our way of life as our jobs and wages are whittled away by cheap overseas competition.

This is why my father, who worked on a production line in a factory, was able to raise four children and keep a wife on his income, while his modern equivalent would be lucky to be able to rent a flat and support himself and a goldfish.

its a long running problem not just a recent phenomenon relating to globalisation.

for example in the socialist soviet times, was it right for socialist countries to keep people employed for the sake of it? this was ultimately at a cost to other citizens.

is it right to advocate royal mail introducing a more automated mail sorting system which would cut costs significantly for the economy or should they stick to a more manual, human sorting system which will employs lots of people and keeps people in jobs?

a perfect example is the steel industry. we make almost as much steel as we did in the 70's using just 15% of the workforce. its gone from 197000 workers to just 29000 today, but production is only slightly less.

the price arbitrage you talk about will exist for as long as the other countries have a lower gdp per capita than ourselves. unless we want to wait for the developing countries to catch us up, which would eliminate wage arbitrage, we must accept it is the reality.

we are either wealthier than the rest of the world, in which case there will be wage arbitrage or we are as poor as them, in which case there will be none. we cant have it both ways.

the solution is to stay ahead of the game by creating new jobs faster than you lose your old ones. keeping obsolete jobs can only last for so long, and can at times hold back economic development.

Edited April 29, 2011 by mfp123