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'we'll Seize Possessions From Your Homes': New Threat By Tax 'thugs' In Second Wave Of Letters To Debtors

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379998/New-threat-tax-thugs-second-wave-letters-debtors.html

HM Revenue & Customs officials were branded ‘thugs’ last week after The Mail on Sunday revealed they had written to tax debtors warning their cars, TVs and computers could be grabbed and sold at auction for a fraction of their value.

MPs condemned the letters, which warned that a £2,000 flatscreen TV could be sold for £200 and an £800 laptop for £100.

Yet now officials have sent further threats, warning people they will have no control over what is taken from their homes.

One letter went to 85-year-old Richard Tanner, a former design engineer who became an MBE for aiding aircraft refuelling during the Falklands War. He is a regular taxpayer and does not dispute owing money – merely the amount.

The new letters, sent from HMRC in Croydon, state: ‘We will now need to take action to collect your tax. We are arranging a visit to your house. We will view your possessions and list those that we will sell at auction.

'Once listed, your belongings will become the property of HM Revenue & Customs. We strongly advise you to avoid this as it will cost you much more to pay this way and can be embarrassing.’

Mark Warburton, director of accountancy firm Grant Thornton, said last night: ‘HMRC powers were tightened by the last Government in 2009. The system is supposed to ratchet up by stages so it is only repeat offenders who feel the full force, including seizure of goods

The Mail on Sunday report last week

But I would not expect the tactics to apply where taxpayers have been in contact with their tax office, either to dispute the tax due or where they are in financial difficulties and have asked for more time to pay.’

No surprises that it was Liebour who moved to seize goods to fund their extravagance. So if you dare dispute the amount owed then the tax man will simply issue threats and steal your possessions to pay your bills.

It's great to live in a democratic country where govt agents behave like Nazi thugs.

Reading this you do wonder if those at HRMC are doing this because they fancy a new TV etc... Raid someones house for unpaid tax, steal the goods sell them at auction and the staff can buy them on the cheap all nice and legal. It's a nice perk and I'm sure this won't be happening.

Amazing that HMRC has all this power yet the public have none in stopping the govt from spending money it doesn't have, meanwhile the govt has given itself permission to steal what ever it likes at will, under the guise it's going after those who never pay.

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Amazing that HMRC has all this power yet the public have none in stopping the govt from spending money it doesn't have, meanwhile the govt has given itself permission to steal what ever it likes at will, under the guise it's going after those who never pay.

Mind control too. Psychological ploys to make people feel guilty and vulnerable. It gives the impression everyone else is paying and they are holier than though...

This system really stinks. No wonder more poeple are taking medication for mental problems. By paradox, the ones who suffer the most are the ones who actually want to toe the party line and want to be with the in crowd but through circumstance cannot...

Im self employed and thankfully, (apart from some negatives) feel more in control of my finances and can work around state interference to a certain extent...

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A new law introduced by the last government whilst using scorched earth tactics on the economy including going into ever increasing debts and banker bailouts on the backs of UK taxpayers.

Mind you it hasn't been repealed by the current lot despite their hand wringing posturing that all the harshness is a result of the last lots policies but is temporary until the UK arrives in the land of milk and honey under the helm of the current lot.

A posture similar to that adopted by the last lot and the lot before them.......

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Dont they need to prove the assets like TV etc are yours?

Nope, they take stuff and you have to bring reciepts etc to get it back.

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Nope, they take stuff and you have to bring reciepts etc to get it back.

Customs and excise have huge powers over the UK population. We are all basically guilty. We have to prove otherwise and its not always easy...

They can tell one of their "field agents" ( other word for bully boy bailiffs) to confiscate goods at your adresse. Its up to you to stop them before they arrive by calling and proving they are wrong.

One problem is they take an inordinate amount of time to reply or call you back with information/questions etc

In some cases months !

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Customs and excise have huge powers over the UK population. We are all basically guilty. We have to prove otherwise and its not always easy...

They can tell one of their "field agents" ( other word for bully boy bailiffs) to confiscate goods at your adresse. Its up to you to stop them before they arrive by calling and proving they are wrong.

One problem is they take an inordinate amount of time to reply or call you back with information/questions etc

In some cases months !

It always strikes me there are similarities between the councils/government/tax people/the bailifs and organised crime/extortion.

I'm happy to contibute to society but when they are taking 60-80% of my income in direct or indirect taxation then you have to think to yourself somethings is far wrong. If they had a smaller government and a leaner public sector, we'd all pay less tax, have more money in our pockets. Then, maybe people wouldnt have to be forced to pay the tax man rather than putting food on their families tables.

There must be a lot of sense these days in just renting expensive luxury items, they cant take them away then :lol:

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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It always strikes me there are similarities between the councils/government/tax people/the bailifs and organised crime/extortion.

I'm happy to contibute to society but when they are taking 60-80% of my income in direct or indirect taxation then you have to think to yourself somethings is far wrong. If they had a smaller government and a leaner public sector, we'd all pay less tax, have more money in our pockets. Then, maybe people wouldnt have to be forced to pay the tax man rather than putting food on their families tables.

There must be a lot of sense these days in just renting expensive luxury items, they cant take them away then :lol:

They are one and the same.

Government's pretend to be Shepherds to protect the herd from wolves. But, to the Shepherd, sheep are merely a resource to be exploited. They are farmed for their meat and wool.

The sheep would have a better life without the shepherd or the wolves.

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It always strikes me there are similarities between the councils/government/tax people/the bailifs and organised crime/extortion.

I'm happy to contibute to society but when they are taking 60-80% of my income in direct or indirect taxation then you have to think to yourself somethings is far wrong. If they had a smaller government and a leaner public sector, we'd all pay less tax, have more money in our pockets. Then, maybe people wouldnt have to be forced to pay the tax man rather than putting food on their families tables.

There must be a lot of sense these days in just renting expensive luxury items, they cant take them away then :lol:

Too much is taken in tax, no doubt about that.

Mind you, if the tax man let's debtors get away with it, there is a greater burden placed on those left. They have to take a hard line on debtors for that reason. Shame the government don't take a hard line on smi, huge public sector salaries and the runaway benefits culture.

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Dont they need to prove the assets like TV etc are yours?

The temptation at receiving one of these letters and then going and hiring loads of 50" TV's etc.... for the house. Imagine the chaos that would create, when you try to tell them they can't take that because, at which point your cut off in mid flow we can take what we like it's in your house and it's on the list.

I wonder how the police would deal with that theft :)

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Customs and excise have huge powers over the UK population. We are all basically guilty. We have to prove otherwise and its not always easy...

They can tell one of their "field agents" ( other word for bully boy bailiffs) to confiscate goods at your adresse. Its up to you to stop them before they arrive by calling and proving they are wrong.

One problem is they take an inordinate amount of time to reply or call you back with information/questions etc

In some cases months !

As a principle in law it amazes me this is still allowed to stand that you are guilty until you prove otherwise. Surprised this has never been challenged in court and it should be HMRC which has to prove you owe the money.

I have no problem with those who dodge taxes being pursued in this manner, but I'm betting the head of Barclays won't get HMRC turning up saying they've avoided taxes and we are taking these Greek govt bonds at 90% face value....

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As a principle in law it amazes me this is still allowed to stand that you are guilty until you prove otherwise.

Forgive me Peers, for I have borrowed.

(one might be forgiven for suspecting that the transition from religious to mercantilist state merely transmuted original sin to original debt)

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As a principle in law it amazes me this is still allowed to stand that you are guilty until you prove otherwise. Surprised this has never been challenged in court and it should be HMRC which has to prove you owe the money.

I have no problem with those who dodge taxes being pursued in this manner, but I'm betting the head of Barclays won't get HMRC turning up saying they've avoided taxes and we are taking these Greek govt bonds at 90% face value....

That's why the IR don't like things to get as far as a criminal trial, as the burden of proof is much higher. It's also why they are always prepared to settle for a remarkably low percentage on what they claim to be owed. ;)

Edited by Jack's Creation

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I got one of these letters from them last week, i've forgotten to square up some payment due and the first overdue letter starts straight away ever so causally saying how they'll come and take my possessions and sell them off. There is something very menacing in the casualness of the way it is written. It's like the really nasty villain whispers the threat and it's all the more menacing for it. Made me quite angry though so perhaps this isn't their ideal approach, but having said that i saw reason when i listened to my favourite cover version

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I got one of these letters from them last week, i've forgotten to square up some payment due and the first overdue letter starts straight away ever so causally saying how they'll come and take my possessions and sell them off. There is something very menacing in the casualness of the way it is written. It's like the really nasty villain whispers the threat and it's all the more menacing for it. Made me quite angry though so perhaps this isn't their ideal approach, but having said that i saw reason when i listened to my favourite cover version

It used to be very different. I got what I suspect was the "same" letter about 10 years ago saying would I please pay as they had to charge interest otherwise. A polite phonecall later it was sorted out after I told them what account the cheque they had cashed a couple months previously was drawn on. I thought then the process was civilised even if the letter was sent in error, and after all why not. Just how would it help to annoy people who pay their taxes? I suppose they found some twisted answer to that now.

Also, it used to be you could submit the tax return late if you had already paid the correct tax. For some reason that merits a fine nowadays, after all what would the world come to if everyone paid all their tax on time and then submitted the tax return a day late?

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what's all the fuss? This is akin to the bbc threatening to steal your tv if you don't pay their propaganda tax. The bailiffs cannot enter your home. Do not let them in. They can take your car if its on the drive but i doubt they will. What's happened to you lot? Show your teeth not your belly.

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Right! Who knows where these mythical Daily Mail auctions are held, where an £800 laptop makes £100?

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Bailiffs can only break in on a second visit. If you let them in the first time, you are F***ed.

However, always refuse them an initial visit, if they attempt entry without permission the second time they are guilty of breaking and entering.

Allow them to enter your property a first time allows them to use violence the second time.

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