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88Crash

The Shame In Renting

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I have been out of the UK for 2 years and I am renting in Cape Town. Yeah,Yeah, I know it has a crime problem etc, etc, but this topic is on the subject of renting and the ‘second class citizen’ mentality a.k.a brainwashing, that I think is the SINGLE reason behind the UK’s housing boom and probable bust

It may not happen, but make no mistake if a real HPC comes to town the UK is in serious trouble (current economic problems will look like a picnic) and all because we have a very unhealthy attitude towards WHEN to rent and WHEN to buy

That decision should be based on what is appropriate for each individual, but not for speculation and not for status – for the average person that is the worst two possible reasons

Using round figures, before I left UK I was renting approx a one million pound house (nice place) and I lost count over the years how many people said = (consoled themselves) with the fact “It was only rented”

Now, if these people owned a million pound plus house outright – maybe fair comment (but not my idea of friends) but the majority had mortgages on very mediocre houses (plus quite a bit of MEW)

Here in SA about half my friends rent and half own/paying for their own place via a bank loan, typically 15 years and most people I know that rent (including me) plan to buy when the time is right, but I can tell you one difference – NO ONE looks down their noses at someone that is renting through circumstance

If you are invited to someones house, you go there for the hospitality, the company, the food, the drink, the music, but not to work out who is inferior because they rent. In the UK I miss my family and friends, but that is ALL – the rest? I’m glad to be out and I genuinely feel so sorry for the younger generation, they have been so screwed over with their future – it didn’t need to be this way!

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Unless you are a blue blood, by birth, you are always going to be a 2nd class citizen in Britain.

Get over it.

I never got into it in the first place, so I never had to "Get over it" LOL!!

Unlike you it seems <_<

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Good post, 88Crash. Always interesting to get an international viewpoint on the renting vs. owning situation.

Get over it.

That was unnecessary!

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You've got a proper house with running water and a flushing karzee.... which puts you ahead of millions of South Africans. If you lived in a township shack I'm sure you'd feel the same perception of being a second class citizen that you claim to find in the UK.

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I have been out of the UK for 2 years and I am renting in Cape Town. Yeah,Yeah, I know it has a crime problem etc, etc, but this topic is on the subject of renting and the ‘second class citizen’ mentality a.k.a brainwashing, that I think is the SINGLE reason behind the UK’s housing boom and probable bust

It may not happen, but make no mistake if a real HPC comes to town the UK is in serious trouble (current economic problems will look like a picnic) and all because we have a very unhealthy attitude towards WHEN to rent and WHEN to buy

That decision should be based on what is appropriate for each individual, but not for speculation and not for status – for the average person that is the worst two possible reasons

Using round figures, before I left UK I was renting approx a one million pound house (nice place) and I lost count over the years how many people said = (consoled themselves) with the fact “It was only rented”

Now, if these people owned a million pound plus house outright – maybe fair comment (but not my idea of friends) but the majority had mortgages on very mediocre houses (plus quite a bit of MEW)

Here in SA about half my friends rent and half own/paying for their own place via a bank loan, typically 15 years and most people I know that rent (including me) plan to buy when the time is right, but I can tell you one difference – NO ONE looks down their noses at someone that is renting through circumstance

If you are invited to someones house, you go there for the hospitality, the company, the food, the drink, the music, but not to work out who is inferior because they rent. In the UK I miss my family and friends, but that is ALL – the rest? I’m glad to be out and I genuinely feel so sorry for the younger generation, they have been so screwed over with their future – it didn’t need to be this way!

There was a recent post from a renter who said he enjoyed renting when he was single, but with a young family he hates the fact that he's been forced into several moves at short notice when his landlord decided to turf them out. His resentment at renting had nothing to do with snobbery and everything to do with providing stability for his family.

Unless and until UK legislation moves from being landlord friendly to tenant friendly then renters will always have an additional "flinch factor".

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Good post, 88Crash. Always interesting to get an international viewpoint on the renting vs. owning situation.

That was unnecessary!

Thanks for that – I thought it was a bit of a ridiculous, but clearly either he/she has a problem and/or is just trying to rack up responses to become a ‘HPC Guru’

As for an overseas perspective, I have spent a lot of time in other countries and IMO – the UK has the worst culture when it comes to renting of the major developed nations and it does the country no favours in the long term in two key areas

First it reduces international competiveness and it does seem we are heading towards an increasingly Global economy – without getting into macro economics, common sense tells you that can’t be good

Secondly the younger generation, call it a cliché – but they are the UK’s future have been f*cked over IMO and that will cost all of the UK dearly i.e. not investing in EVERYONES future – It ain’t rocket science

To illustrate that, I am of the ‘boomer generation’ and it always amazed me how many friends of my age had kids that were struggling in their 20’s yet somehow managed to distance themselves from the fact they were part of the problem (several were BTL’rs but not Landlords i.e. speculation only) yet they still had the mantra “Renting is dead money” – the fact their OWN children could neither afford to rent or buy, never seemed to occur to them

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To illustrate that, I am of the ‘boomer generation’ and it always amazed me how many friends of my age had kids that were struggling in their 20’s yet somehow managed to distance themselves from the fact they were part of the problem (several were BTL’rs but not Landlords i.e. speculation only) yet they still had the mantra “Renting is dead money” – the fact their OWN children could neither afford to rent or buy, never seemed to occur to them

They just need to work harder and save up like boomers did! It's those iPods! That's what it is! :lol:

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yeah agreed,it's nice to hear how culturally differnet places handle the same problem.

I've felt for some time that as a society we are not going to be free of this obsession until we hit the bottom after a very long and deep bust.It's ironic that a lot of the people I know who were snobbiest about owning are the ones in the most trouble and most likely to end up long term renters.

Well we had a similar problem here in SA, but the boom (party) only lasted for approx 5 years and make no mistake, people here started with the same “renting is dead money” and “property only goes up in value” – but it did not become so ingrained as in the UK

As an observation, my younger friends here still live a happier lifestyle than the UK because they can rent a nice place for a few hundred per month AND no stigma attached. As per original post most are planning to buy, as and when there circumstances allow for it = more chance of the right place at the right time

PS Just to add – today it is hotter and sunnier in the UK than CT – I hope you guys enjoy the sunny Easter break and the upcoming wedding – I’m not a Royalist, but its a great reason to take an extended holiday

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Thanks for that – I thought it was a bit of a ridiculous, but clearly either he/she has a problem and/or is just trying to rack up responses to become a ‘HPC Guru’

As for an overseas perspective, I have spent a lot of time in other countries and IMO – the UK has the worst culture when it comes to renting of the major developed nations and it does the country no favours in the long term in two key areas

First it reduces international competiveness and it does seem we are heading towards an increasingly Global economy – without getting into macro economics, common sense tells you that can’t be good

Secondly the younger generation, call it a cliché – but they are the UK’s future have been f*cked over IMO and that will cost all of the UK dearly i.e. not investing in EVERYONES future – It ain’t rocket science

To illustrate that, I am of the ‘boomer generation’ and it always amazed me how many friends of my age had kids that were struggling in their 20’s yet somehow managed to distance themselves from the fact they were part of the problem (several were BTL’rs but not Landlords i.e. speculation only) yet they still had the mantra “Renting is dead money” – the fact their OWN children could neither afford to rent or buy, never seemed to occur to them

Yep, the human race has many qualities, some of which are good, and some that are bad - two of these qualitites unfortunately are ignorance and greed. There has been an abundance of that around over the last 10-15 years for sure.

People will learn the hard way only to forget what they have learned once again.

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You've got a proper house with running water and a flushing karzee.... which puts you ahead of millions of South Africans. If you lived in a township shack I'm sure you'd feel the same perception of being a second class citizen that you claim to find in the UK.

If you are a shack dweller than 2nd class is an understatement and I don’t want to turn this thread into a point scoring exercise! I live here so I am very much aware of the differences, although it is still much better here in SA than the majority of Africa, even for the poor ones

To take the OP away from SA v UK – I’d suggest that the same applies with renting v owning stigma in most G20 countries (SA is G20 BTW) i.e Germany or Spain etc, people rent and its no big deal, they are not social outcasts and compared to UK they tend to have a healthier rental market (and rights) BTW by Spain I mean the places where the Spanish live, not the Costas

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There was a recent post from a renter who said he enjoyed renting when he was single, but with a young family he hates the fact that he's been forced into several moves at short notice when his landlord decided to turf them out. His resentment at renting had nothing to do with snobbery and everything to do with providing stability for his family.

Unless and until UK legislation moves from being landlord friendly to tenant friendly then renters will always have an additional "flinch factor".

We still have dodgy landlords here. Recently a friend of mine moved from Jo’burg to Cape Town and took a short term contract – got kicked out after 6 months (not nice with a wife and 3 children) however he is now in a long term contract in a nice place (we were there last night) 4 beds, pool, entertainment area and in a good area (i.e. no black people running around with guns) and YES he does plan to buy for the long term for his family, but he has a 2 year breathing space to make that plan, plus his rent is £700 pm, when I left the UK you could easily pay £700 for a 1 bedroom s*ithole

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They just need to work harder and save up like boomers did! It's those iPods! That's what it is! :lol:

You learn something new everyday! I thought it was too much spent in expensive bars (for too long) - Are you saying as long as I don't replace the iPod (or the flatscreen) I can carry on partying? Thats made my day :D

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Yep, the human race has many qualities, some of which are good, and some that are bad - two of these qualitites unfortunately are ignorance and greed. There has been an abundance of that around over the last 10-15 years for sure.

People will learn the hard way only to forget what they have learned once again.

+1 <_<

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In Australia, a supposedly first world nation with the lowest population density on earth yet the highest house prices (WTF), if you rent you are most definitely second class.

Landlords consistently claim that tenants have more rights than they do but that is absolute tosh. Tosh I say.

My landlady lets herself into my flat every Friday and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Funny thing is that nor can she say anything about a few things she has a right to be cranky about but she can get F***ked as to raise them would be to admit opening my cupboards (which she has done).

But yeah, in Oz you are classed as "tattooed (quilty as charged my lord) scum" if you rent. Nice attitude to your customer :rolleyes:

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In Australia, a supposedly first world nation with the lowest population density on earth yet the highest house prices (WTF), if you rent you are most definitely second class.

Landlords consistently claim that tenants have more rights than they do but that is absolute tosh. Tosh I say.

My landlady lets herself into my flat every Friday and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Funny thing is that nor can she say anything about a few things she has a right to be cranky about but she can get F***ked as to raise them would be to admit opening my cupboards (which she has done).

But yeah, in Oz you are classed as "tattooed (quilty as charged my lord) scum" if you rent. Nice attitude to your customer :rolleyes:

do cashed up bogans buy or rent ??

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do cashed up bogans buy or rent ??

..and another thing, best neighbours the elderly rellies (sp?) ever had was when the local bikey gang moved in next next, strange but true

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My landlady lets herself into my flat every Friday and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Funny thing is that nor can she say anything about a few things she has a right to be cranky about but she can get F***ked as to raise them would be to admit opening my cupboards (which she has done).

Keep a couple of pet funnelweb spiders in there ;).

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Keep a couple of pet funnelweb spiders in there ;).

I have rifle safe with 7 rifles inside it.

On one occasion I stayed home, parked my car around the block, didn't answer the door and the landlady found me starkers lieing on my bed :lol:

It was several weeks before my little indicators were triggered again <_<

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Interesting. I live in Germany and have my cars insured on a German policy through AXA. I used to use a UK company (Norwich Union) until about 5 years ago. When I came to renew I had been a customer for 10 years and had a 10 year no claim period, but the girlie on the policy renewal line went through numerous questions including "do you own a home and do you have a mortgage". I had been on the line for about 1/2 an hour by then so was getting impatient, and I asked what this had to do with my car insurance. She said words to the effect of "if you've got a mortgage you're more reliable and you get a better premium". I switched to AXA the same day and saved over 50% on my premium. And guess what....no questions about houses and mortgages. In UK this is all pervasive, with a implied assumption that the non-home-owner, non mortgage payer is an inferior class of citizen.

Edited by ingermany

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In Australia, a supposedly first world nation with the lowest population density on earth yet the highest house prices (WTF), if you rent you are most definitely second class.

Landlords consistently claim that tenants have more rights than they do but that is absolute tosh. Tosh I say.

My landlady lets herself into my flat every Friday and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Funny thing is that nor can she say anything about a few things she has a right to be cranky about but she can get F***ked as to raise them would be to admit opening my cupboards (which she has done).

But yeah, in Oz you are classed as "tattooed (quilty as charged my lord) scum" if you rent. Nice attitude to your customer :rolleyes:

...think attitude adjustment is due as the wheels come off the bubble....who wants to borrow against the falling value of cemented bricks...?.... :rolleyes:

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Interesting. I live in Germany and have my cars insured on a German policy through AXA. I used to use a UK company (Norwich Union) until about 5 years ago. When I came to renew I had been a customer for 10 years and had a 10 year no claim period, but the girlie on the policy renewal line went through numerous questions including "do you own a home and do you have a mortgage". I had been on the line for about 1/2 an hour by then so was getting impatient, and I asked what this had to do with my car insurance. She said words to the effect of "if you've got a mortgage you're more reliable and you get a better premium". I switched to AXA the same day and saved over 50% on my premium. And guess what....no questions about houses and mortgages. In UK this is all pervasive, with a implied assumption that the non-home-owner, non mortgage payer is an inferior class of citizen.

...too true ..we are a country of dubious values ...the smart young rent... :rolleyes:

Edited by South Lorne

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With the way the world of work is going, and the costs associated with house up-keeping and moving... I am really starting to think that owning would be a bad move... at least for the first 10 years of one's career.

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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