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desperate young

Who Do We Owe The Money?

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A question I am sure has been asked before. Does anyone have any figures as to exactly who we owe the money to?

A bit of research to fulfill my Easter curiosity!

Thanks in advance

DY

bankers of course.

And they get the money from....pension funds, savers, checking accounts etc etc.

so, at the end of the day, we owe ourselves the money.

I mean, Martians didnt lend it to us, did they?

So who is paying it back....the tommorow US...our children.

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bankers of course.

And they get the money from....pension funds, savers, checking accounts etc etc.

so, at the end of the day, we owe ourselves the money.

I mean, Martians didnt lend it to us, did they?

So who is paying it back....the tommorow US...our children.

Thanks Bloo, this is also my general impression. But, do we know, is there a breakdown of figures, something concrete?

Something like this, but for the UK and a bit more detailed if possible.

DebtUSPublic.gif

Edited by desperate young

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Thanks Bloo, this is also my general impression. But, do we know, is there a breakdown of figures, something concrete?

Something like this, but for the UK and a bit more detailed if possible.

DebtUSPublic.gif

of course, money is created by private banks monetising a promise to pay it back with interest.

The Fed of course is monetising by the back door, the tax take of the US Citizens.

Private investment banks are leveraging up those debts into fantastic liabilities between themselves....which of course became unpayable....(credit crunch 2007).

Now, having bailed these entitities out with Government funds borrowed from Fed...we have a problem.

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of course, money is created by private banks monetising a promise to pay it back with interest.

The Fed of course is monetising by the back door, the tax take of the US Citizens.

Private investment banks are leveraging up those debts into fantastic liabilities between themselves....which of course became unpayable....(credit crunch 2007).

Now, having bailed these entitities out with Government funds borrowed from Fed...we have a problem.

Agreed, it really is all a con, due to a corrupt monetary system that has no substance to it and has nothing supporting it other than confidence,etc...

However, we agree with this because we have read so much here and elsewhere online.

I was having a conversation in the pub last night trying to explain how the money 'we' have borrowed was our money in the first place, or at least created money from thin air and the whole thing is a scam. All very interesting according to my friends, but what was the breakdown, how is the money organised in theory, who do we owe it to, exactly (or at least in general sections). Without this type of detail to the average drone we come across as conspiracy nuts!

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We owe most of it to 'ourselves', about 80%. When I say 'ourselves' I mean British banks, insurance companies, pension funds, individual investors (NS&I), gilts recently purchased by the BoE under APS etc...

The other 20% is owed to foreign banks and insitutions. Osborne doesn't want you to know that. Nor does he want you to know that our debt is structured in a remarkably low-yielding, long-term way. I mean it wouldn't make us like Greece or Portugal would it.

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A question I am sure has been asked before. Does anyone have any figures as to exactly who we owe the money to?

A bit of research to fulfill my Easter curiosity!

Thanks in advance

DY

http://www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx?docname=publications/quarterly/oct-dec10.pdf&page=Quarterly_Review

A more crtitical appraisal:

http://www.debtbombshell.com/bond-market.htm

Edited by The Spaniard

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Agreed, it really is all a con, due to a corrupt monetary system that has no substance to it and has nothing supporting it other than confidence,etc...

However, we agree with this because we have read so much here and elsewhere online.

I was having a conversation in the pub last night trying to explain how the money 'we' have borrowed was our money in the first place, or at least created money from thin air and the whole thing is a scam. All very interesting according to my friends, but what was the breakdown, how is the money organised in theory, who do we owe it to, exactly (or at least in general sections). Without this type of detail to the average drone we come across as conspiracy nuts!

what does it matter to whom we owe it?

there are no martians.

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Thanks that was exactly what I was after!

So next question, what would happen if we wrote off the 65% British owned and made sure that those that needed the money (ie not bankers) got back the amount that they had paid in and stopped the bankers/middle men/***** taking their cut?

How is the debt structured is it all in sterling or is some in dollars?

Lots of questions here, I thought it might be useful to discuss solutions to the current debt problem.

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Thanks that was exactly what I was after!

So next question, what would happen if we wrote off the 65% British owned and made sure that those that needed the money (ie not bankers) got back the amount that they had paid in and stopped the bankers/middle men/***** taking their cut?

How is the debt structured is it all in sterling or is some in dollars?

Lots of questions here, I thought it might be useful to discuss solutions to the current debt problem.

there are only two solutions to a debt problem.

pay it down.

or not.

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Actually the 35.1% owed overseas in the second link is incorrect. However there is an important point about the amount we overseas increasing rapidly over the past few years especially in 2010.

I see Osborne's confusion now. He jumped the gun - we're not like Portugal and Greece yet. Poor thing. It's all jumbled up in his head - maybe his friends dropped him on it too many times.

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Thanks Bloo, this is also my general impression. But, do we know, is there a breakdown of figures, something concrete?

Something like this, but for the UK and a bit more detailed if possible.

DebtUSPublic.gif

I hadn't realised the Fed had already got to that proportion of debt owned in the US. Two or three years and it will be 90 + %!

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Actually the 35.1% owed overseas in the second link is incorrect. However there is an important point about the amount we overseas increasing rapidly over the past few years especially in 2010.

I see Osborne's confusion now. He jumped the gun - we're not like Portugal and Greece yet. Poor thing. It's all jumbled up in his head - maybe his friends dropped him on it too many times.

of course...the trade deficit will mean more dollars need to be borrowed to pay for stuff.

like oil. gas. French Leccy.

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I hadn't realised the Fed had already got to that proportion of debt owned in the US. Two or three years and it will be 90 + %!

And it's out of date; it adds up to < $9 Trillion whereas US debt is currently over $14 trillion. God knows what the Fed's current share is.

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of course...the trade deficit will mean more dollars need to be borrowed to pay for stuff.

like oil. gas. French Leccy.

Wonder what the next set of deficit figures will look like. Hopefully will have narrowed a bit but the timing of the public sector cuts kicking in couldn't be worse. The deficit is already holding back growth and we're about to see a lot of job losses and increased benefit spend - more borrowing to offset declining tax receipts. No signs of the private sector being in a position to take up any of the slack either. The magical growth has not happened.

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Thanks that was exactly what I was after!

So next question, what would happen if we wrote off the 65% British owned and made sure that those that needed the money (ie not bankers) got back the amount that they had paid in and stopped the bankers/middle men/***** taking their cut?

How is the debt structured is it all in sterling or is some in dollars?

Lots of questions here, I thought it might be useful to discuss solutions to the current debt problem.

That's where your cunning plan falls apart ;)

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One thing that surprised me was how little is owed to households. We see overseas borrowing as bad but there is huge pent-up domestic demand for NS&I products, particularly the index linked certs. If the ceiling was lifted on NS&I how much could that help? How much extra slack could households take up? Perhaps some of the NS&I products are structured badly - why not 10 year certs because many people simply roll their investment into the next issue anyway.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying borrowing from households would be massively significant but surely anything that prevented increasing forays into short term gilts would have to be welcomed. I guess we all know why it wouldn't happen though - the banks would stop it because of the impact on their deposits.

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One thing that surprised me was how little is owed to households. We see overseas borrowing as bad but there is huge pent-up domestic demand for NS&I products, particularly the index linked certs. If the ceiling was lifted on NS&I how much could that help? How much extra slack could households take up? Perhaps some of the NS&I products are structured badly - why not 10 year certs because many people simply roll their investment into the next issue anyway.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying borrowing from households would be massively significant but surely anything that prevented increasing forays into short term gilts would have to be welcomed. I guess we all know why it wouldn't happen though - the banks would stop it because of the impact on their deposits.

People don't borrow from households, they deposit to households.

The borrowing cones first (one reason this system is so iniquitous.)

Edited by Injin

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People don't borrow from households, they deposit to households.

The borrowing cones first (one reason this system is so iniquitous.)

I agree that this all seems ridiculously naive and really has no chance of working with the VI system in place. However, I would like to know what we would have to do to return the system to some sort of equilibrium with as little pain as possible and avoid this happening again.

Unthinkable, I appreciate this, however, it would at least be nice to know what we would like to have.

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I agree that this all seems ridiculously naive and really has no chance of working with the VI system in place. However, I would like to know what we would have to do to return the system to some sort of equilibrium with as little pain as possible and avoid this happening again.

Unthinkable, I appreciate this, however, it would at least be nice to know what we would like to have.

Collapse and then rebuilding.

People will not give up on their 2007 house prices, or their mania that PC numbers have some magical value when accompanied with a bank logo or national stamp attached and they will not change until the pain is unnbearable.

Delusionals have to hit bottom before recovery. Not nice but how it is.

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Collapse and then rebuilding.

People will not give up on their 2007 house prices, or their mania that PC numbers have some magical value when accompanied with a bank logo or national stamp attached and they will not change until the pain is unnbearable.

Delusionals have to hit bottom before recovery. Not nice but how it is.

Aye, artificial valuations plucked out of the air and totally delusional, but it helps "get you out of bed in the morning and perform tasks for more 00's in kind, so to return to you pc or shelter with their artificil valuations", its a merry go round, but the rent seekers are laughing while you sweat, stress and keep smiling..................

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Collapse and then rebuilding.

People will not give up on their 2007 house prices, or their mania that PC numbers have some magical value when accompanied with a bank logo or national stamp attached and they will not change until the pain is unnbearable.

Delusionals have to hit bottom before recovery. Not nice but how it is.

Is this collapse in anyone's interest though? Is there another way to achieve equilibrium.

Over the years I have become very irritated with the hugely indebted who think they have done well and are happy to flaunt this. However, they do not understand their own situation at all. Do they really deserve the reset you describe?

Is a reset realistic, if not we need to be hoping for something else, but what and how?

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Is this collapse in anyone's interest though? Is there another way to achieve equilibrium.

The collapse is in everyones interest, even those nominalyl benfitting from the status quo.

Over the years I have become very irritated with the hugely indebted who think they have done well and are happy to flaunt this. However, they do not understand their own situation at all. Do they really deserve the reset you describe?

Yes, banking is fraud.

Is a reset realistic, if not we need to be hoping for something else, but what and how?

Reset is inevitable.

Hope for what you like, reality remains.

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The collapse is in everyones interest, even those nominalyl benfitting from the status quo.

Yes, banking is fraud.

Reset is inevitable.

Hope for what you like, reality remains.

Concise yet cryptic as ever Injin!

When you say it is in everyones interest do you mean in the short/medium/long term?

Everything is inevitable, timing in the only relevant factor. The world will end it is inevitable.

Hope defines reality in the human condition. There must be other options.

Interested in all opinions on this, as well as Injin's continued musings...

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Concise yet cryptic as ever Injin!

When you say it is in everyones interest do you mean in the short/medium/long term?

We are talking about giving up a fantasy. How can that be a bad thing? People who operate on fantasies make poor decision after poor decision.

Everything is inevitable, timing in the only relevant factor. The world will end it is inevitable.

Hope defines reality in the human condition. There must be other options.

Reality defines reality, it doesn't give shit how you feel about it - reality is external to yourself.

Interested in all opinions on this, as well as Injin's continued musings...

Have an easter egg, zombie jesus demands it.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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