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30% Of Canadian Can't Afford Cost Of Living

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TORONTO - Nearly one-third of Canadians that responded to a recent survey backed by a major Canadian bank said they didn't have enough money to cover living expenses.

An online survey completed for TD Canada Trust (TSX:TD) also found that 54 per cent of the 1,003 people who answered said it was a real struggle or impossible to save.

The report, released Wednesday, says that 38 per cent of respondents said they had no savings and 30 per cent said they didn't have enough money for their living expenses.

On the flip side, 30 per cent of the respondents said they had enough money saved to cover living expenses for at least four months.

The online survey, based on a representative sample of Canadian adults, was conducted before Christmas from Dec. 2 to 7 by Environics Research for the bank.

TD used the survey results to publicize its services for helping customers with their savings.

The survey found the top goals for the respondents were: saving for retirement (73 per cent), paying off credit cards (72 per cent), and major purchases or vacations (53 per cent each).

On a regional basis:

— 22 per cent of respondents in the Atlantic provinces said they found saving "impossible" and 43 per cent indicated any left-over money was being used to pay down debt.

— 54 per cent of respondents in Ontario said they found it a "real struggle" or impossible to save and 33 per cent said they didn't have enough money to cover living expenses.

— 33 per cent of respondents in Saskatchewan and Manitoba indicated it was a real struggle to save but a larger portion (37 per cent) said they had enough money saved to cover at least four months of living expenses.

— 55 per cent of respondents in Alberta said it was a real struggle or impossible to save but 31 per cent said they had enough money saved to cover at least four months of living expenses.

— 44 per cent of respondents in British Columbia said it was a real struggle or impossible to save; 30 per cent said they didn't have enough money to cover living expenses.

This plague of debt is everywhere. How this plays out is beyond me, but as with most scenarios, things will have to get a whole lot worse before they get better.

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The percentage of Americans who have jobs has fallen to the lowest point in three decades and now hovers just above 45 percent of the total population, according to an analysis of labor data published by USA Today.

The report, based on figures provided by the Census and the Bureau of Labor Statistics, showed that at 36.7 percent, Mississippi had the lowest percentage of population working.

Employment rates were also low in California and Arizona, where just over 37 percent had jobs. At 55.8 percent, North Dakota had the highest rate of employed residents.

Overall, 45.4 percent of Americans were working, the lowest since 1983. Employment peaked at 49.3 percent in 2000.

"The bad economy, an aging population and a plateau in women working are contributing to changes that pose serious challenges for financing the nation's social programs," the paper noted.

The news comes at a time when Republican senators have unveiled a plan to raise the retirement age, which would force more Americans to search for jobs that just aren't there.

Freshman tea party-backed Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Rand Paul (R-KY) -- along with Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) -- have joined the call, seeking to raise the retirement age to 70 in the next 20 years.

"If you talk to young people in America - they've already accepted this," Paul said Wednesday.

You've probably all heard this one about the Yanks, but it looks like North America is toast.

Much more, and bigger war is in the cards, as the snake is dead/dying.

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Isnt Canadian deficit going to be $300mil CAD this year, (£190 MILLION GBP)!!! :lol:

Wonder what government and personal debt level is like there?

I lived in Canada, off and on, for decades, and my opinion is that the place has gone to hell.

Everybody I know there is now in the same shape as we are, up to their necks in debt, and they have no nationalised health care per say and the social welfare system is crap.

The killer over there is the winters. Imagine you had to have 2x 1500 litre fill-ups of heating oil a month just to keep comfortable in your home. Electricity is about the same.

Taxes are higher there as well.

Of course, with all the resources in the country, no-one 'should' be hard up.

Things are not always greener on the other side of the fence.

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I lived in Canada, off and on, for decades, and my opinion is that the place has gone to hell.

Everybody I know there is now in the same shape as we are, up to their necks in debt, and they have no nationalised health care per say and the social welfare system is crap.

The killer over there is the winters. Imagine you had to have 2x 1500 litre fill-ups of heating oil a month just to keep comfortable in your home. Electricity is about the same.

Taxes are higher there as well.

Of course, with all the resources in the country, no-one 'should' be hard up.

Things are not always greener on the other side of the fence.

This will come as news to my family and friends who are regular users of Canada's free* Medicare system, which puts NHS care to shame.

*Yes, yes, I know, it's not 'free' because it is paid for by the taxpayer.

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They have had a housing boom like here

Say the financial sector have managed to drive house prices up by 150% with easy credit

House was £100k

Mortgage at long term average of 6% over 25 years = £644 a month

House now £250k

Mortgage = £1,611 a month

Extra £967 a month.... oh look.... the mortgage has gone up 150% = people struggle & bankers laughing all the way to the bank.

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I lived in Canada, off and on, for decades, and my opinion is that the place has gone to hell.

Everybody I know there is now in the same shape as we are, up to their necks in debt, and they have no nationalised health care per say and the social welfare system is crap.

The killer over there is the winters. Imagine you had to have 2x 1500 litre fill-ups of heating oil a month just to keep comfortable in your home. Electricity is about the same.

Taxes are higher there as well.

Of course, with all the resources in the country, no-one 'should' be hard up.

Things are not always greener on the other side of the fence.

Are you sure your talking about Canada? Maybe you didnt get benefits/healthcare as you were illegal? They are supposed to have some of the best social benefits in the world, health, education, and taxes are infact lower over there. Consistently rated as one of the best countries to live in. Vancouver and Toronto are beautiful cities, living standards are infinitely better than ours. The pound is also down 40% to the Cdn$ in the last 5 years, so it looks at the moment they are doing okay. One big difference is there attitudes towards pensions, 73% put this as a priority over holidays. I would guess in the UK its the complete opposite, so in 20 years when the pension bomb goes off we are in real trouble. Interesting that the Canadian pension funds are actually buying up UK assets at the moment as well, while we infact do not even fund the pension system, and its effectively bankrupt. I think they mainly use gas to heat their homes as well, at least in the cities, and their gas is incredibily cheap.

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Are you sure your talking about Canada? Maybe you didnt get benefits/healthcare as you were illegal? They are supposed to have some of the best social benefits in the world, health, education, and taxes are infact lower over there. Consistently rated as one of the best countries to live in. Vancouver and Toronto are beautiful cities, living standards are infinitely better than ours. The pound is also down 40% to the Cdn$ in the last 5 years, so it looks at the moment they are doing okay. One big difference is there attitudes towards pensions, 73% put this as a priority over holidays. I would guess in the UK its the complete opposite, so in 20 years when the pension bomb goes off we are in real trouble. Interesting that the Canadian pension funds are actually buying up UK assets at the moment as well, while we infact do not even fund the pension system, and its effectively bankrupt. I think they mainly use gas to heat their homes as well, at least in the cities, and their gas is incredibily cheap.

Indeed and if/when gas runs out they can chop down some of their vast forests for firewood, for freee.

And petrols cheaper

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...you were illegal?

My Canadian passport says I am not...

Canadian pension funds are actually buying up UK assets

You refer to the very successful, and privately run Ontario teachers investment fund.

And, as for living costs, houses are expensive (Averages):

Vancouver, BC $792,000
Toronto, Ont $454,000
Calgary, Alb $401,000
Ottawa, Ont $338,000
Montreal, Que $300,000
Regina, Sask $273,000
Halifax, NS $262,000
Fredericton, NB $153,000

Property taxes are about 2% of the book value of your home. When you sell your home the average cost is about 5% of the home value to the estate agents pocket.

Plus stamp duty,

Federal income tax is like ours, in bands, at 15% on the first $41,544, 22% on the next $41,544, 26% on the next $45,712, 29% of taxable income over $128,800.

Plus you pay your provincial income taxes,

Newfoundland and Labrador

7.7% on the first $31,904 of taxable income, +
12.5% on the next $31,903, +
13.3% on the amount over $63,807

Prince Edward Island

9.8% on the first $31,984 of taxable income, +
13.8% on the next $31,985, +
16.7% on the amount over $63,969

Nova Scotia

8.79% on the first $29,590 of taxable income, +
14.95% on the next $29,590, +
16.67% on the next $33,820 +
17.5% on the next $57,000
21% on the amount over $150,000

New Brunswick

9.1% on the first $37,150 of taxable income, +
12.1% on the next $37,150, +
12.4% on the next $46,496, +
14.3% on the amount over $120,796

Quebec See Income tax rates (Revenu Québec Web site).

0 $38,570 16%
$38,570 $77,140 20%
$77,140 - 24%

Ontario

5.05% on the first $37,774 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $37,776, +
11.16% on the amount over $75,550

Manitoba

10.8% on the first $31,000 of taxable income, +
12.75% on the next $36,000, +
17.4% on the amount over $67,000

Saskatchewan

11% on the first $40,919 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $75,992, +
15% on the amount over $116,911

Alberta 10% of taxable income

British Columbia

5.06% on the first $36,146 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $36,147, +
10.5% on the next $10,708, +
12.29% on the next $17,786, +
14.7% on the amount over $100,787

Plus you pay CPP tax, (Canada pension plan) at 4.95%, or 9.8% for self employed.

Sales taxes vary, but they are about the same as here, and usually not included in the shelf price, gets tacked on at the cash register.

Plus the list goes on and on.

Like I said, it ain't that great any more. Fill your boots though.

Edited by cashinmattress

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This will come as news to my family and friends who are regular users of Canada's free* Medicare system, which puts NHS care to shame.

*Yes, yes, I know, it's not 'free' because it is paid for by the taxpayer.

They will have a medical insurance program, partiality or fully paid for by their employers, which is wholly different than the system here.

Free if you can afford it maybe.

I lived in Canada when it went to a two tier system. It will go that way here in time no doubt. Doctors aren't employed by the state, they are privately run.

The state medical system there will pay for ambulance, immediate life threatening surgery, and the basics like a shared hospital room, but drugs, rehabilitation, glasses, dental, etc... is paid by you.

You are talking out of your a$$. Do your research before shooting off.

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Isnt Canadian deficit going to be $300mil CAD this year, (£190 MILLION GBP)!!! :lol:

Wonder what government and personal debt level is like there?

...our is £billion...!..... :rolleyes:

...Canada planning to wipe out deficit by 2014/2015...2009/10 ..it was USD$55.6 billion ...... :rolleyes:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1162849.ece

http://www.financialpost.com/Canada+deficit+shrinks+December/4347396/story.html

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Can't speak for other provinces, but in Ontario the medical coverage by the state (OHIP in our case) is very similar to that in the UK with the exception of prescriptions which you have to pay for yourself unless you're poor (means tested) or over 65 (everyone). Drugs given as part of hospital treatment are paid for by the state and, I'm fairly sure, that covers things like the drugs given as part of chemo-therapy. Dental cover is totally private although, again, I think there are some provisions for people on low incomes. Most people in work have insurance provided by their employers to cover some of the costs (e.g. I get 80% of my dental charges paid) and insurance for catastrophic drugs costs (usually defined as anything over 1500 per year) is relatively cheap to buy. Taxes overall are very similar to the UK too. Income tax is a bit higher but then sales tax is lower.

On average, if you're living in Toronto, I'd say the standard of living is materially better than London for most people. Primarily, because it's still possible to live in an OK area close to work for most people and, on the whole, the houses and apartments are bigger than the UK equivalents.

I wouldn't say the grass is greener (actually, it's a nasty shade of brown for 6 months a year!) but it's certainly a different colour. I've made the call to stay here long enough to get citizenship at least and I think it's quite likely I'll end up staying permanently.

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In Ontario, sales tax (GST) is just 13%, fuel though currently expensive is half the cost of the UK.

Its true that initially at least income tax is higher, most people I know here get a tax rebate every year. If you have children and/or a spouse that doesn't work you get money back for that too. The health system here is very good from experience also.

There are of course downsides too - manufacturing has been decimated and unemployment is high, although things are improving. If you don't have a degree though, chances are you are looking at minimum wage jobs, and yes it would be a struggle here in those circumstances.

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In Ontario, sales tax (GST) is just 13%

You mean HST don't you?

The manufacturing base in Toronto and South East Ontario will never come back, just like it will never come back to Britain. I beleive the industrial output is down more than 1/5th over the last decade as well. The signing of the NAFTA deal in 1994 saw about 30% of the manufacturing industry close up shop and move to Mexico overnight. The real deathblow came in 2000 with the end of the 'dot-com' bubble. The corridor between Oakville and Pickering was chock-a-block with Nortel and other IT firms, and it seemed they were putting up new 50,000 m^2 warehouses almost monthly.

From what I know from mates and family there, the economy is picking up, but what that really means is more low paid, unprotected and temporary positions.

The steel mills in Hamilton/Burlington have been sold off, probably for a song. The car industry is dead/dying all over the south of the province.

The east coast is toast, fisheries dead and oil and gas left at the hands of that crooked Irvine mofo. Good luck getting any work in Quebec unless you are fully fluent in Québécois French, as they are very insular.

Boom areas do exist, like the north Prairies and the oil sands, although that has to be one of the most sh1tty ways to earn a living I can think of. Lot's of my Newfie mates live there.

The West coast, well I don't really know much about that, but most of my mates who live out there are into snowboarding and smoking weed, so they don't give a crap about the economy.

What I really don't like about Canada these days is how 'Americanised' it has become. They really need to elect a fiery Quebec born Prime Minister to once again flip the bird to the Yanks and start looking after themselves, as a nation. Hopefully the election will see the end of that idiot Harper.

At the end of it, the article is right, in that a hell of a lot of people in Canada are drowning in debt, and not for the reasons that we are here. Canucks aren't taking 3 sunny holidays a year, they aren't fanatical about property like here, and the banks have been more conservative about credit. It's sad. Lot's of my friends should be well off there, but they simply are not because of the cost of life, in the most resource rich country in the world.

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Fascinating. I think cashinmatress has just given some potential expats the shock of their lives. There is no escape. Doomed to blighty forever :ph34r:

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Fascinating. I think cashinmatress has just given some potential expats the shock of their lives. There is no escape. Doomed to blighty forever :ph34r:

Yes, and with price to earnings of at least 8 in Toronto and 11+ in Vancouver it makes UK property look a bargain.

Stand by for the mother of bubble implosions in Vancouver, in particular - when rates 'normalise'.

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Funny ain't it..................

Canada & Australia, two very high resource based economies, English speaking, high commodity currency relative to Sterling, high on the immigration list of UK expats, the countries are a wealth of natural resource.............................yet the locals in both Australia and Canada share the same inbalances...............they are skint and globally the most overindebted and stupid cost to wage ratio's..................

Up to their eyeballs in private debt, from personal experience Australia, extortinate cost of living, biggest housing bubble in the world, they have very little left over each month to enjoy, they seem to accept this as the norm, they just do not benefit from the wealth of their country with regards to commodities, and the money lenders have got them by their short and curly's.................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/contributors/robertpickles/

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The killer over there is the winters. Imagine you had to have 2x 1500 litre fill-ups of heating oil a month just to keep comfortable in your home. Electricity is about the same.

We really don't have a clue in the UK when it comes to the importance of cheap oil. I have family in Chicago, either the heating or air conditioning is on most of the year round, living in sprawling suburbs with no footpaths. Cheap oil is as essential to life in the US as water and Canada is the same, from what i've seen.

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Funny ain't it..................

Canada & Australia, two very high resource based economies, English speaking, high commodity currency relative to Sterling, high on the immigration list of UK expats, the countries are a wealth of natural resource.............................yet the locals in both Australia and Canada share the same inbalances...............they are skint and globally the most overindebted and stupid cost to wage ratio's..................

Up to their eyeballs in private debt, from personal experience Australia, extortinate cost of living, biggest housing bubble in the world, they have very little left over each month to enjoy, they seem to accept this as the norm, they just do not benefit from the wealth of their country with regards to commodities, and the money lenders have got them by their short and curly's.................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/contributors/robertpickles/

Their natural wealth is being stolen by rent-seekers. 'The Silver Bullet' by Fred Harrison is good on this subject. The central problem is land and who owns it - a land value tax would curb housing costs and distribute the wealth from natural resources.

Edited by shipbuilder

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Their natural wealth is being stolen by rent-seekers. 'The Silver Bullet' by Fred Harrison is good on this subject. The central problem is land and who owns it - a land value tax would curb housing costs and distribute the wealth from natural resources.

Yet both..........Australia & Canada have very very low Sovereign debt, is this about to change i wonder, i know Australia taps the money markets, well the big four banks for a huge sum of dollars every year to finance lending due to ultra low savings rates in Australia.

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Yes, and with price to earnings of at least 8 in Toronto and 11+ in Vancouver it makes UK property look a bargain.

I can't speak for Vancouver but that's not the full picture in Toronto. I'm sure that's representative of averages but, unlike large parts of the UK, there's still cheaper housing available in OK areas close to where the jobs are. Average household income is around 100K CAD (from http://www.omaccanada.ca/en/market/toronto/default.omac) which would, on a 2.5 times joint income plus, say, 50K deposit, get you this place in a nice area close to the financial district - http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=10572858&PidKey=624930979. It's not cheap by any means, but it's still a way of the extremes of the UK.

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But, buuuuut....

Everyone in my office keeps saying they are going to Canada to work, because it has a better quality of life; they can't be wrong...Can they?

My personal philosophy is that anywhere they speak English as a primary language is f***** and they only difference is better/worse weather.

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Everyone in my office keeps saying they are going to Canada to work, because it has a better quality of life; they can't be wrong...Can they?

Not better or worse, just different for the most part.

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Average household income is around 100K CAD (from http://www.omaccanada.ca/en/market/toronto/default.omac) which would, on a 2.5 times joint income plus, say, 50K deposit, get you this place in a nice area close to the financial district - http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=10572858&PidKey=624930979. It's not cheap by any means, but it's still a way of the extremes of the UK.

That sounds high - and I notice that the site referenced there has 'vested interests'.

To quote CBC from 2006:

"The latest census data suggests the average family in the Toronto region has a little less in its wallets than it did the last time Statistics Canada asked people about how much money they make.

New information from the 2006 census released Thursday indicates the median income for families in and around Toronto was $75,829 — a decrease from the 2001 census, when it was $77,693 when adjusted for inflation.

The 2.4 per cent decrease compares to a national increase in income of 3.7 per cent and a provincial increase of 1.4 per cent.

Individuals in the metropolitan Toronto area had a median income of $26,754. Five years earlier, the median income was $28,700."

I guess they must have had an economic miracle in Toronto over the past 5 years? :huh:

Not only that - the rate of condo building in TO has been stratospheric. Always a bad sign (echos of 1991-92).

Edited by Norma Lamont

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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