Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

guitarman001

Depressed?

Recommended Posts

_52292677_incapacity_benefit_464gr.gif

Wow that is a shocking bit of insightful info.

Isn’t it funny that the clear cut issues listed are the ones with the fewest people, the grey areas of ‘ooh me back’, ‘oh woe is me i am depressed’ and ‘Unknown causes’ – what the feck is that!!! – are the three biggest quantities of people. Get the feckers back to work, the reasons below the top 3 then fair enough but that is yet another of New Labour’s mandate of the shite (that and the legions of public sector non jobs and the serially unemployed).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...Get the feckers back to work, the reasons below the top 3 then fair enough...

You think alcoholism and drug abuse should be reasons for more state benefits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

according to the wail,there's people with diarrhoea caliming it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379010/Scandal-80-000-alcohol-drug-addicts-sickness-benefits.html

'Officials admitted 135,000 people have been off work for a decade with depression, 1,360 because they have diarrhoea and 6,740 because they have severe stress.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379010/Scandal-80-000-alcohol-drug-addicts-sickness-benefits.html#ixzz1KB5ldFcg

Yeah but they should be shittting themselves soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was more depressed on the dole than I was in my current employment. Something about getting up and spending every day doing nothing. You'd think you would have more time for hobbies but even they become passé and I just spend it zoned out in-front of a screen.

Perhaps it also says something about the current culture of city work that so many people are off on the sick. Corporate places with no soul where you are treated as a machine to be milked for every bit of productivity.

It says something when I am much happier working in a secondary school surrounded by moody teenagers than I ever was working for a corp.

I would have thought disability would have more people, well with physical defects on that list - but they aren't even in the top 10?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2011/04/moral_welfare.html

Interesting article...

Quiet morning? Banish boredom with some hand-wringing about alcoholics, drug addicts and obesity patients receiving incapacity benefits!

It is one of those hardy perennial stories to be wheeled out on a dull news day, a chronic "scandal" that media and Ministers alike know will press the button marked "moral outrage".

But hold on. Today's version says 80,000 addicts receive welfare payments and yet in 2006 the story was that 100,000 were on incapacity benefits. In 2008 it was more than 100,000, last August it was nearly 90,000, by November it was more than 100,000 once more.

I haven't seen any stories saying that the latest figures represent a 20% fall in just five months. I wonder why. I also wonder why this particular group of incapacity benefits claimants is picked out from the data. The suggestion seems to be that people suffering from diseases like alcoholism, drug dependency and obesity are morally culpable for their condition.

John Humphrys articulated just this point on the Today programme this morning. When Don Shenker, Chief Executive of Alcohol Concern suggested alcoholics were often unable to work "through no fault of their own" he was interrupted. "No fault of their own?" he was asked.

One can understand why the question is asked but once society starts introducing the idea of "fault" into the issue of welfare, the debate enters dangerous territory. Let us assume that the reason for all these stories about drug addicts, alcoholics and obesity sufferers receiving state support is that some people regard them as "undeserving": what about these people?

The smoker who knew the risks and developed lung cancer

The non-smoker who lived with a smoker, knew the risks and developed lung cancer

The horse-rider who knew the risks of the sport and suffered brain injury after a fall

The spinster who ignored her doctor's advice to lay off the sweet sherry and developed debilitating diabetes

The man whose refusal to follow health and safety advice resulted in a disabling industrial accident

The driver who crashed into a tree after three gin and tonics and was never able to work again

To be fair to the government, ministers have always couched the debate in terms of supporting and encouraging people back into work through treatment or other help. There is also a legitimate public discussion to be had about individual responsibility and whether the state should tailor welfare provision to encourage pro-social behaviour.

But let's be honest: this familiar debate is really about providing ammunition for those who insist it is possible to take a moral stance on welfare; that we can divide up potential recipients in terms of deserving and undeserving. The trouble with this argument is that it would necessitate some kind of "morality officer" charged with deciding whether incapacity was the "fault" of the individual. Who would we recruit for this job? What questions would be asked?

The alcoholic whose condition has led them from well-functioning citizen to welfare-dependency - is it the role of government to investigate the case and apportion blame?

What if it emerged that the individual had suffered serious child abuse which had led to severe mental health problems which in turn had led to the bottle? Should the abuser face sanction rather than the abused? Should the retailer who sold the cheap cider knowing the customer had a drink problem? What about the drinks company promoting sales of high-strength low-cost booze? And do the institutions and politicians who failed to protect the abused child and supported the drinks industry shoulder any responsibility?

A thought for a quiet morning...

PS: My list of incapacity benefit addict stories was an illustration of how this tale gets re-told and re-packaged at regular intervals. The Sun story from November relates to figures obtained under a Freedom of Information request from the previous year and so my 20% fall point should be taken with the stroke-inducing pinch of salt with which it was intended to be consumed. Incapacity benefits closed for new claimants last August of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple solution is to give them non-transferable vouchers for basic necessities or in the case of the disabled, specific vouchers, and see how many continue to be 'disabled'

Once they cant spend their giro down the pub/bookies see how claimants drop off. The current system is designed for abuse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depression is no laughing matter. It can be extremely disabling. Many of those off with depression will also be suffering from physical ailments too. Don't blame the sick and the vulnerable for all the ills of society. Don't you realise it's just what our lords and masters want you to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depression is no laughing matter. It can be extremely disabling. Many of those off with depression will also be suffering from physical ailments too. Don't blame the sick and the vulnerable for all the ills of society. Don't you realise it's just what our lords and masters want you to do.

exactly, come on lets turn the clock back to Victorian times, bring back the work house, the debtors prison and the asylum.

actually, it's what ultimately gives right wingers a bad name, the old, the sick and the vulnerable are always the ones they pick on first while the fat cats carry on getting their huge bonuses. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple solution is to give them non-transferable vouchers for basic necessities or in the case of the disabled, specific vouchers, and see how many continue to be 'disabled'

Once they cant spend their giro down the pub/bookies see how claimants drop off. The current system is designed for abuse.

the vouchers can and will be sold / exchanged for other items. There's plenty of unscrupulous shopkeepers around. This went on all the time with the asylum seeker voucher scheme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can well believe that the depression cases are 100% genuine. Spend 10 minutes in the average UK drone job and you will too. The idea that any sort of work is better than being on the dole is all part of the 'work ethic' lie that only the proles are meant to buy into - the idle rich certainly don't 'suffer' from a lack of work or direction in their lives.

We need a revolution of thought about work - let's stop trotting mindless cr*p about work being good for the soul and all technology is good. It's quite simple - there are rewarding jobs and sh*t jobs - for some reason we automate away the rewarding ones and keep the sh*t ones - why? That's the question that needs answering. EF Schumacher asked it four decades ago, but sadly there are few with the same foresight and vision as him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bring in a citizen's income and this is a non-issue and no-one's business. Think about the massive waste of everyone's time and money behind the compilation of these figures and the assessment of the benefits.

Except for those on the receiving end of the goodies, benefits and state salary, who are likely to be much more organised and tuned into political realities than internet social engineers without a constituency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bring in a citizen's income and this is a non-issue and no-one's business. Think about the massive waste of everyone's time and money behind the compilation of these figures and the assessment of the benefits.

+1

Much as I'd like to join in with the benefit bashing, there is a real shortage of "proper" jobs. Its pretty tricky for the able bodied to get work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except for those on the receiving end of the goodies, benefits and state salary, who are likely to be much more organised and tuned into political realities than internet social engineers without a constituency.

Well I never....you mean the PM isn't reading my posts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I never....you mean the PM isn't reading my posts?

From what I have read of your posts, he should. But reality, political reality, trumps rigour or even common sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just claim incapacity benefit!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13152349

Hmm, what relevance does this have... maybe they're all depressed at the cost of housing! :D

It's funny how this surfaces every now and then. All the bankers had wrong with them was greedycuntitis and they got billions of pounds of tax payers cash.

This is diversion pure and simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's funny how this surfaces every now and then. All the bankers had wrong with them was greedycuntitis and they got billions of pounds of tax payers cash.

This is diversion pure and simple.

+1

The £200 billion bailout equals a stack of £20 pound notes 600 miles high.

Incapacity benefit bill is £12.5 billion or so. Most of it to deserving people.

Diversion.

Pure

and

simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1

The £200 billion bailout equals a stack of £20 pound notes 600 miles high.

Incapacity benefit bill is £12.5 billion or so. Most of it to deserving people.

Diversion.

Pure

and

simple.

Diversion it may be but that does not excuse people taking the piss. I have known seriously depressed people who quite simply could not work and we should be supporting them, but the problem is that their issues are being devalued by people who just quite simply can't be arsed and as depression is very difficult to prove it is an easy way out for those that are so inclined.

Personally speaking I have been diagnosed with depression and was signed off for a few weeks some years ago - not having anything to do did not help. Now whilst I admit my symptoms are obviously not as serious as many, it was a relief to return to the routine and 'something to do' nature of my work.

Having to get up each morning and face daytime TV is enough to make anyone's symptoms worse, we need to be helping people back into the real world, even if it is to work in the voluntary sector for a few afternoons a week. There should be schemes where people can contribute on a level they can cope with - whilst still retaining their benefits. The shirkers will hopefully be encouraged to pull their fingers out whilst the genuine cases may find their situation improved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diversion it may be but that does not excuse people taking the piss. I have known seriously depressed people who quite simply could not work and we should be supporting them, but the problem is that their issues are being devalued by people who just quite simply can't be arsed and as depression is very difficult to prove it is an easy way out for those that are so inclined.

Personally speaking I have been diagnosed with depression and was signed off for a few weeks some years ago - not having anything to do did not help. Now whilst I admit my symptoms are obviously not as serious as many, it was a relief to return to the routine and 'something to do' nature of my work.

Having to get up each morning and face daytime TV is enough to make anyone's symptoms worse, we need to be helping people back into the real world, even if it is to work in the voluntary sector for a few afternoons a week. There should be schemes where people can contribute on a level they can cope with - whilst still retaining their benefits. The shirkers will hopefully be encouraged to pull their fingers out whilst the genuine cases may find their situation improved.

There should be but there aren't. There's such a stigma associated with depression and other mental illness that it's no wonder many depressed people become long-term benefit claimants. After a few years out of work it's not hard to imagine that many will never work again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diversion it may be but that does not excuse people taking the piss. I have known seriously depressed people who quite simply could not work and we should be supporting them, but the problem is that their issues are being devalued by people who just quite simply can't be arsed and as depression is very difficult to prove it is an easy way out for those that are so inclined.

Personally speaking I have been diagnosed with depression and was signed off for a few weeks some years ago - not having anything to do did not help. Now whilst I admit my symptoms are obviously not as serious as many, it was a relief to return to the routine and 'something to do' nature of my work.

Having to get up each morning and face daytime TV is enough to make anyone's symptoms worse, we need to be helping people back into the real world, even if it is to work in the voluntary sector for a few afternoons a week. There should be schemes where people can contribute on a level they can cope with - whilst still retaining their benefits. The shirkers will hopefully be encouraged to pull their fingers out whilst the genuine cases may find their situation improved.

I don't disagree with much of that. However concentrating on incapacity benefit in light if other misdemeanours is like getting annoyed with a bloke giving your wife the eye despite some other bloke shagging her bandy and getting her up the spout.

Just imagine what the proportional histograph bar would like if you included banker bailouts as "benefits"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.