Si1 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 All this talk of a class baffles me, money has little to do with it. Money is unrelated to class as i see it, has Wayne Rooney got class? Class for me is about manners,consideration for other people, education. A person with class isn't out to impress anyone with a show of wealth, they plough their own farrow, have a moral code, treat pauper and lord with equal respect. This recent flood of cheap money sloshing around the country has given some people a life style they never could have had at another point in history, and they confuse this with 'moving up' and suddenly having class, as they see it. The fact that they think a display of wealth is something in itself to aspire to tells you to what cohort they belong. As a society we shouldn't have given these people money, they don't know what it's for. And now we all suffer. I stayed a few nights in a rural Youth Hostel in north Wales last summer, met a titled Lord and his kids - clearly public school educated - has lots of physical wealth, however the income off it was lower due to the recession, sounded like they were preserving their wealth by holidaying cheaply in a Youth Hostel, not digging into physical wealth, just income, during recession, securing their capital, and perfectly nice to talk to. Modest old car too. proper upper class, respected me as a person, no b*llsh*t the nouveau-riche can be vile by comparison - think The Wilsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britney's Piers Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 "£4000 a term private school" ??? That's a fairly decent secondhand Bentley a year, and then you could throw it away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 uuurgh, you've just described my parents! great post, rings very true - later gens of same family are aspirational chavs with a bit of cash, other families I know along similar lines Is there a doiley on their loo seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contractor Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Dupe. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=162659&st=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird 900 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Cybernoid...Excellent Post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairies Wear Boots Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If they earnt the national average, then they wouldn't have any money left over after paying the mortgage, in times of ZIRP, and they live in Charlton. Says it all really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thombleached Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Seems pretty simple to me. If you live hand to mouth (i.e. a wage slave) then you're working class. Can afford a lengthly period of unemployment without state handout?...Middle class. Got webbed feet?...Upper class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If you appear in Hello or OK magazine, you're upper class. The rest are just not worth mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahleyburn Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Has anyone met a proper upper class, blue blooded type ? I had three friends at university who were landed gentry (titled, land owning etc - although one of their families made their wealth through commerce a couple of centuries ago, which apparently made him officially upper middle class, despite being titled and owning a significant chunk of England...). I ended up living on one family's estate for a while - they had a vast estate but not a lot of cash, and their weekly shopping was definitely more frugal than most people's (although it was boosted by the odd bit of pheasant / apples from the orchard etc..). While I dislike what they represent, I generally liked them as individuals - most had a very powerful sense of social responsibility (not enough to give up their land but enough to make them dedicate over half of their time to "public works" of one sort or another...) and a deeply instilled belief that their privileged position led to a duty for "pastoral care" (eg letting out properties on their estates for peppercorn rents to those they felt a sense of duty towards). There was also much less snobbery than there is among the middle classes. Definitely not showy or materialistic - that would be very bad taste. (When meeting friends of theirs while living on the estate, my general rule was the scruffier they were and the more battered their car, the 'higher up' the hierarchy they were likely to be.) That said, they were mostly fairly arrogant about their social standing (implicitly, never explicitly); although they'd never say it outright (to me), most of them seemed to feel that it was right and proper that they should be so privileged, and that they were somehow wiser than others. Or maybe I just misinterpreted that total self-confidence that seems to come from going to the very top private schools. Still, I think I'd say that the (old school) working class and the upper class have much more in common with each other than either do with the middle classes - at least they both like each other a lot more than either likes aspirational / flash / snobbish types (including politicians). Edited April 21, 2011 by sarahleyburn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 "£4000 a term private school" ??? That's a fairly decent secondhand Bentley a year, and then you could throw it away! If I had the choice of a free Bentley for a year, or free private education/tuition for my (yet to be born) kids for a year I wouldn't have to think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If I had the choice of a free Bentley for a year, or free private education/tuition for my (yet to be born) kids for a year I wouldn't have to think twice. Just get another credit card and do both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If I had the choice of a free Bentley for a year, or free private education/tuition for my (yet to be born) kids for a year I wouldn't have to think twice. I don't have children, Mr Libspero, but I'm sure that Bentley would make an ideal mobile school! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thombleached Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 No, no sympathy. Because it's a made up story. The DM is like an angry bedtime story giving the aspirational classes a moral compass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I had three friends at university who were landed gentry (titled, land owning etc - although one of their families made their wealth through commerce a couple of centuries ago, which apparently made him officially upper middle class, despite being titled and owning a significant chunk of England...). I ended up living on one family's estate for a while - they had a vast estate but not a lot of cash, and their weekly shopping was definitely more frugal than most people's (although it was boosted by the odd bit of pheasant / apples from the orchard etc..). While I dislike what they represent, I generally liked them as individuals - most had a very powerful sense of social responsibility (not enough to give up their land but enough to make them dedicate over half of their time to "public works" of one sort or another...) and a deeply instilled belief that their privileged position led to a duty for "pastoral care" (eg letting out properties on their estates for peppercorn rents to those they felt a sense of duty towards). There was also much less snobbery than there is among the middle classes. Definitely not showy or materialistic - that would be very bad taste. (When meeting friends of theirs while living on the estate, my general rule was the scruffier they were and the more battered their car, the 'higher up' the hierarchy they were likely to be.) That said, they were mostly fairly arrogant about their social standing (implicitly, never explicitly); although they'd never say it outright (to me), most of them seemed to feel that it was right and proper that they should be so privileged, and that they were somehow wiser than others. Or maybe I just misinterpreted that total self-confidence that seems to come from going to the very top private schools. Still, I think I'd say that the (old school) working class and the upper class have much more in common with each other than either do with the middle classes - at least they both like each other a lot more than either likes aspirational / flash / snobbish types (including politicians). Farmers feel the same way about their cows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Just get another credit card and do both! I believe too many may have done that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 ****** them, and their ability to 'treat themselves' vs. saving spare cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I believe too many may have done that! All their problems will be solved with more credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahleyburn Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Farmers feel the same way about their cows. Yep, I did get that feeling sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I don't have children, Mr Libspero, but I'm sure that Bentley would make an ideal mobile school! What surprises me more is that 32 hours of child care costs £500. Surely if things were that tight groups of parents would be getting together and forming after school play groups of their own? It would make a huge amount of sense (and would pay for half of Oscar's private schooling in a shot)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Surely if things were that tight groups of parents would be getting together and forming after school play groups of their own? Some of my friends with kids are quite gifted "academics" and are doing this already! As they currently have litle regular work! Unfortunately they don't want little Justin to learn to strip a Ford LSD axle, otherwise I would be in this business too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) What surprises me more is that 32 hours of child care costs £500. Surely if things were that tight groups of parents would be getting together and forming after school play groups of their own? It would make a huge amount of sense (and would pay for half of Oscar's private schooling in a shot)! i dont think its that straightforward, i think Labour introduced laws a few years ago stating that the UKs 40+million adults are all paedos unless you have a certificate from so no mark saying you arent, id presumed Dave would have reversed this by now following his pre election waffle on intrusive Labour laws, but hes only been in a year or so and hasnt finished washing his hair or something like that Edited April 21, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) i dont think its that straightforward, i think Labour introduced laws a few years ago stating that the UKs 40+million adults are all paedos unless you have a certificate from so no mark saying you arent, id presumed Dave would have reversed this by now following his pre election waffle on intrusive Labour laws, I actually thought he had.. I'm not sure if it's gone through yet, but there was some talk about it shortly after the election. I remember thinking how pleased I was (after spending ages boring everyone on off-topic to death about how stupid I thought it was that old people wouldn't be able to do voluntary work with children any more). Edit: All they did was amend the Childcare Act of 2006 to allow mothers to look after each others kids without being locked up. Everything else is unchanged. All parents are still paedos until they have a piece of paper saying they haven't been caught yet.. Edited April 21, 2011 by libspero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REP013 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I actually thought he had.. I'm not sure if it's actually gone through yet, but there was some talk about it shortly after the election. I remember thinking how pleased I was (after spending ages boring everyone on off-topic to death about how stupid I thought it was that old people wouldn't be able to do voluntary work with children any more). iirc the law has changed. If you spend less than 1 day a week with children you don't need a CRB. Interestingly many people who have children would "fail" a CRB check. I'm sure there's some irony there somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbux Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I stayed a few nights in a rural Youth Hostel in north Wales last summer, met a titled Lord and his kids - clearly public school educated - has lots of physical wealth, however the income off it was lower due to the recession, sounded like they were preserving their wealth by holidaying cheaply in a Youth Hostel, not digging into physical wealth, just income, during recession, securing their capital, and perfectly nice to talk to. Modest old car too. proper upper class, respected me as a person, no b*llsh*t the nouveau-riche can be vile by comparison - think The Wilsons Yep, I have a mate who is listed in Burke's. Very down to earth, ancient car, dresses like a scruff most of the time, sounds like the Queen, and owns a bloody gorgeous house which is a nightmare to run. I also know someone whose family are wealthy through work, media heavyweights. Admittedly I think she has a personality disorder, but she's an obnoxious creature with little 'class' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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