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Reality Check For The Middle Class --merged threads

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"Not so long ago, Nicolette and Andrew Dawson would have been considered well-off. Between them, they take home more than twice the national average salary, and were always used to having a little spare money at the end of the month to treat themselves. But these days all that has changed. Somehow, life has become a daily struggle to make ends meet.

The Dawsons’ experience is far from unique. Christina and Simon Reynolds have similar joint salaries. Christina, 43, runs a catering company. Simon, 44, works in IT, and they live with their son Oscar, nine, in Charlton, South-East London. They too have found themselves cutting down on necessities.

‘We don’t put the heating on very much at all, even during that freezing spell in December,’ says Christina. ‘We snuggled under blankets to watch TV and took the icy chill off the beds with hot water bottles. Our utility bills are usually about £100 a month and recently they’ve gone up by almost a quarter.’

Extraordinarily, the Dawsons and the Reynoldses each have household incomes of £60,000. It is not a meagre sum. In fact, when you consider the national average individual salary is £26,000, they should be doing reasonably well.

Yet they are struggling; not merely to afford luxuries — which are now largely unattainable — but also to keep the roof over their heads. And they are not alone.

The truth is they are among a growing army of middle-class nouveaux pauvres — the new poor — who have for years enjoyed comfortable lifestyles afforded by their good salaries, but who now find themselves caught in a financial quagmire."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1379039/The-nouveau-poor-They-earn-twice-national-average-struggle-make-ends-meet--sympathy.html

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Looking at the OPs link.

If you look to the right hand side of that middle England nation's most influential paper, you'll see aspiring advertisements, and top stories chasing the infantile antics of the rich and famous celebrities. These people bought into it hook, line and sinker.

Some of the people on this planet live on $1/day. Wake up.

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Shop at Waitrose, drive an overpriced badge (often 'bought' on credit), top up income with debt if 'necessary' etc. etc. These people manna from heaven for the ad agencies. With £3.7k coming in they should be getting modestly wealthy year on year, not sliding into more debt. School kids should have Mr Micawber's famous advice compulsorily drummed into them in school general studies.

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Wages have stayed the same,, but commodity inflation is out of control. Rising house prices are good then DM?

Edited by Money Spinner

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BUllsh*t, we earn around that figure and are able to save £1k a month. Pity these idiots, pah never!

You can only save because someone else hasn't.

System design.

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They shouldn't have taken on such big mortgages. If earned 60k I would be very well off indeed, there is no readon why they shouldn't be too.

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The usual problem: borrowed on a dual-income no-kids basis, and then had kids. So now they both have to work hence the £500 pcm child-care costs. With a stay-home mother they'd be £600 pcm (child-care plus cleaner) better off. They should never have borrowed on her salary and if you go back to the 1970s the wife's income was never included in mortgage calculations - it was deemed to be temporary.

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"Used to having a little spare money left over at the end of the month to treat themselves" - anybody earning that kind of money who has this breadline mentality clearly has a major problem with personal finance. They should be able to take for granted that their basic needs can be comfortably met and that they can treat themselves whenever they feel like it but unfortunately too many people don't seem to know when to stop.

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They shouldn't have taken on such big mortgages. If earned 60k I would be very well off indeed, there is no readon why they shouldn't be too.

+1 this would be a good salary to me!

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Shop at Waitrose, drive an overpriced badge (often 'bought' on credit), top up income with debt if 'necessary' etc. etc. These people manna from heaven for the ad agencies. With £3.7k coming in they should be getting modestly wealthy year on year, not sliding into more debt. School kids should have Mr Micawber's famous advice compulsorily drummed into them in school general studies.

My wife and I pull about 70kpa gross.

Have to say I don't feel wealthy.

Many people seem to ignore the massive increases in cost of living over the last decade. And wages are not keeping pace with nearly two years of 4% inflation.

In 2000 you were doing ok earning 50k, a headteacher or a GP. Now those same jobs are paying 90k plus.

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Annual income £60,000 they are rich....what are they spending their money on? £100 per month fuel bill = £1200 pa.....they must have excess expensive debt somewhere along the line..... :o

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Annual income £60,000 they are rich....what are they spending their money on? £100 per month fuel bill = £1200 pa.....they must have excess expensive debt somewhere along the line..... :o

maybe its the "LaHndon" thing.

Up here, with 60k you live pretty well. That's if you haven't fallen to a predatory lender and bought that nice £345,000 three bed semi detached house in 2007, with a £330,000 mortgage

Every little adds up though. I would imagine those two planks to be driving two new-ish cars on credit, which will cost them more than £500 per month in rates alone.

Rent, drive an old but nice car (always my belief, that, let's some other donkey take the depreciaton hit) and do not use credit cards.

That way, they would be saving some £2,000 per month without sacrificing anything.

But I guess "They're weeerth it" (said in Cheryl Cole's twattish chav Gateshead accent)

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Annual income £60,000 they are rich....what are they spending their money on? £100 per month fuel bill = £1200 pa.....they must have excess expensive debt somewhere along the line..... :o

An awful lot of luxury items quickly become necessities for many people. Just look at divorce cases where the wife is given a standard of living she has become acustomed to.... Officially I'm below the poverty line but I just skimp on everything. I get almost everything from freecycle and only buy new things when absolutely needed.

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Looking at the OPs link.

If you look to the right hand side of that middle England nation's most influential paper, you'll see aspiring advertisements, and top stories chasing the infantile antics of the rich and famous celebrities. These people bought into it hook, line and sinker.

Some of the people on this planet live on $1/day. Wake up.

Judging from the photos they could cut back on the pies :rolleyes:

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An awful lot of luxury items quickly become necessities for many people. Just look at divorce cases where the wife is given a standard of living she has become acustomed to.... Officially I'm below the poverty line but I just skimp on everything. I get almost everything from freecycle and only buy new things when absolutely needed.

...more fun, think how much better you feel when you find quality bargains that cost very little but do the job just as well.........I know it could be all the black granite worktops and the three en-suites, why do people need so many toilets to choose from (and clean)? ;)

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My wife and I pull about 70kpa gross.

Have to say I don't feel wealthy.

Many people seem to ignore the massive increases in cost of living over the last decade. And wages are not keeping pace with nearly two years of 4% inflation.

In 2000 you were doing ok earning 50k, a headteacher or a GP. Now those same jobs are paying 90k plus.

You probably need your head examining, or more likely your finances scrutinised. Do you own an iPad? Do you drive a car that is less than 3 years old? Do you buy £5 bars of soap? etc etc.

I've done my sums, alone I pull in more, add in the OH and we should be really rich. Indeed, we are - because we have limited expectations, do not spend much and are consequently happier as a result. According to my sums, our household gross income can be slashed by about 80% and we'd still not notice much difference, bar a reduction in visiting the pub and going on foreign holidays.

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All Hail The Faux Middle Class. They appear to be well off, but in actual fact they are poor.

Well, pretty much everyone considers themselves middle class these days. I don't actually care what they call themselves, as I find the class system / labelling reprehensive, but it somehow makes people psychologically aspire to (and spend according to) a much more expensive lifestyle.

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From the OP’s article:

‘Mike and I had hoped to get married next year, but I think we’ll have to defer it to 2013 because we’re saving for a house. It’s a real financial struggle. We hope to buy a two or three bedroom semi — nothing too fancy — but even that will set us back about £265,000.

‘We’ll need a deposit of at least £50,000. And when you add on stamp duty and legal fees, that escalates to around £60,000.

‘A joint income of £69,000 sounds like masses of money, but it’s amazing how little distance it stretches. I don’t drive, and Mike has just downsized to a Smart car, to save on fuel costs. Already I’m worried about how we’ll afford childcare when we start a family.’

And what does the future hold for those finding it near impossible to cobble together enough for a deposit? Dr Rowe is pragmatic. ‘In many European countries there is no stigma at all attached to renting,’ she says.

‘We should abandon the shame that surrounds it and accept that, actually, in many situations it’s the sensible thing to do.’

Am I ashamed of renting? No. Cruel, I know but a feeling of schadenfreudic smugness is a more apt description.

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From the OP’s article:

Am I ashamed of renting? No. Cruel, I know but a feeling of schadenfreudic smugness is a more apt description.

Nothing wrong with renting, in fact it has a lot going for it in many ways...like anything the price has to be right, and the landlord has to be right. ;)

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"Not so long ago, Nicolette and Andrew Dawson would have been considered well-off. Between them, they take home more than twice the national average salary, and were always used to having a little spare money at the end of the month to treat themselves. But these days all that has changed. Somehow, life has become a daily struggle to make ends meet.

So two people, in the South East take home slightly more than the national "average" each. Well duh they will be in trouble.

Extraordinarily, the Dawsons and the Reynoldses each have household incomes of £60,000. It is not a meagre sum. In fact, when you consider the national average individual salary is £26,000, they should be doing reasonably well.

Yet they are struggling; not merely to afford luxuries — which are now largely unattainable — but also to keep the roof over their heads. And they are not alone.

Sorry, I don't think this is extraordinary. It's basic math. Fukcing Wail.

The truth is they are among a growing army of middle-class nouveaux pauvres — the new poor — who have for years enjoyed comfortable lifestyles afforded by their good salaries, but who now find themselves caught in a financial quagmire."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1379039/The-nouveau-poor-They-earn-twice-national-average-struggle-make-ends-meet--sympathy.html

How in hell can they be classed as middle class? They earn an average wage. Working class, end of discussion.

God I hate that paper - Circlejerk central

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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