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Oliver Sutton

Finland Rocks The Eu

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Have the people had enough of the bailouts?

If Finland refuses will everyone else be saying why must we foot the bill?

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/04/finland_rocks_the_eu.html

Some time late yesterday evening a tremor hit the EU. Its epicentre was Finland. In elections an overtly anti-Euro party made huge gains, coming a close third. The consequences are unclear, but the True Finns party may now have real influence on whether Finland agrees to help bail out Portugal.

timo_afp.jpg

The True Finns are an anti-immigration party, wary of the influence of Brussels. A measure of their rise is that at the last election they secured just 4% of the vote. Yesterday they got 19%, which put them in third place. They expect to be invited to talks about joining a coalition.Unlike other countries in the eurozone, Finland's parliament has the right to vote on EU requests to bail-out other countries. Potentially the strong showing of the True Finns could delay the rescue plan for Portugal.

"This is a big, big bang in Finish politics," Jan Sundberg, a professor from Helsinki University, says. "This is a big, big change."

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Have the people had enough of the bailouts?

If Finland refuses will everyone else be saying why must we foot the bill?

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/04/finland_rocks_the_eu.html

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It will be interesting to see how UKIP do in the next elections, especially if we have AV.

I think that many more voters support UKIP policies than vote for them.

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I must admit that I find it ironic that all the pro EU people constantly spout that free moment of labour within the EU is one of the best things about it, yet voters across the EU are voting for anti-immigration parties in ever larger numbers. Geert Wilders party is in govt in NL, now the Finns and Marie Le Pen national party in France is making large in roads as well.

The law of unintended consequences. Perhaps the EU will start telling countries to hold their elections again so that the right result is obtained.

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It will be interesting to see how UKIP do in the next elections, especially if we have AV.

I think that many more voters support UKIP policies than vote for them.

UKIP vote gets split with BNP.

AV would help sort that out a little.

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Protectionism and capital controls........then a big barney etc etc........

If the EUSSR is sensible it'll break itself up before it's forced to do so.

I doubt it is, so it'll get messy.

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Have the people had enough of the bailouts?

If Finland refuses will everyone else be saying why must we foot the bill?

Sounds familiar, economic unrest leads to political unrest and the rise of extremist political parties.

How long before other countries start going the same way? Even Germany itself, Merkel will be beginning to sweat for the next German elections.

You think the Germans would learn? The more Austerity piled on the worse the peripheral nations will get. It will all end will meltdown unless a more positive solution if found to the crisis.

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UKIP vote gets split with BNP.

AV would help sort that out a little.

I think its unlikely to make that much difference. BNP tends to stand in Liebour areas, UKIP in tory ones. Generally BNP attracts working class or benefit class voters, UKIP middle class or retirees.

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Right wing national parties are going to get more and more popular.

Welcome to the 1920/30's...you will rememebr what happened in 1939 wont you....

It is a three stage process :

- Mainstream parties ignore the changing views of their traditional supporters

- Extremist parties begin to reflect the views of increasing portions of the population

- Generally moderate people begin to feel so alienated by the mainstream parties that their support swings to extremist parties

Complacency in mainstream parties gives rise to increased risk that extremist parties (both on the left and the right) will gain increased political power.

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Right wing national parties are going to get more and more popular.

Welcome to the 1920/30's...you will rememebr what happened in 1939 wont you....

This is one reason I am against mass immigration, especially as everytime someone questions it they are called racist or xenophobic. It will eventually get so out of hand it blows up in a very ugly way. Carefully managed it could be ok but it is isnt, is it.

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Right wing national parties are going to get more and more popular.

Welcome to the 1920/30's...you will rememebr what happened in 1939 wont you....

The EU was moving towards fascism itself anyway.

Given the choice between nationalist party and the EU i would choose nationalist every time.

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It will be interesting to see how UKIP do in the next elections, especially if we have AV.

I think that many more voters support UKIP policies than vote for them.

At the referendum I am going to vote NO.

My second preference will be YES.

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I must admit that I find it ironic that all the pro EU people constantly spout that free moment of labour within the EU is one of the best things about it, yet voters across the EU are voting for anti-immigration parties in ever larger numbers. Geert Wilders party is in govt in NL, now the Finns and Marie Le Pen national party in France is making large in roads as well.

The law of unintended consequences. Perhaps the EU will start telling countries to hold their elections again so that the right result is obtained.

The thing is, immigration still happens even when you have tight border control. The difference is, you let in the ones you want, but not the ones you don't.

It seems to me that the only people who would want a free for all on immigration, are those with protected jobs, who will not be going into competition so readily with the new influx of labour. They then get cheap services, while keeping their well paid jobs. For the low skilled, it's difficult to see how they benefit though; I think they have every right to be angry.

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I must admit that I find it ironic that all the pro EU people constantly spout that free moment of labour within the EU is one of the best things about it, yet voters across the EU are voting for anti-immigration parties in ever larger numbers. Geert Wilders party is in govt in NL, now the Finns and Marie Le Pen national party in France is making large in roads as well.

The law of unintended consequences. Perhaps the EU will start telling countries to hold their elections again so that the right result is obtained.

Although I'd consider myself pro-EU by nature, as in I would have no fundamental problem with a United States Of Europe, the problems I have are..

- Democratic deficit. Decisions made behind closed doors without much in the way of general consent.

- Over expansion. The effort should have been getting the PIGS in order before EU enlargement

- Common currency = common tax+benefits system. Can't do one without the other.

The whole thing about a half-way-house of having a common currency without common finances was always going to cause problems.

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Although I'd consider myself pro-EU by nature, as in I would have no fundamental problem with a United States Of Europe, the problems I have are..

- Democratic deficit. Decisions made behind closed doors without much in the way of general consent.

- Over expansion. The effort should have been getting the PIGS in order before EU enlargement

- Common currency = common tax+benefits system. Can't do one without the other.

The whole thing about a half-way-house of having a common currency without common finances was always going to cause problems.

The problem is, democracy is such a blunt instrument. It should only really be used as a last resort, when people can't use their money to decide what they want (ie. let the market do its thing). Democracy, no matter what colour or shape, is still going to be mob rule. While I understand that democracy is preferable under some valid circumstances, I still believe it should be representative and apply to as small a region as possible (which makes it more of the former). It seems to me that the EU is just too big and distant from the electorate, that it just isn't representative.

As for the common currency, it's seems to be an even bigger monster that a single country fiat currency. I doubt any country would have signed up to it if they knew that down the line they would have to forgo their tax/benefits systems. I also don't think it works with the current banking system (with state guaranteed banking), as you can have runs on entire countries, with no exchange rate crash to cool the heals of those making withdrawals.

It seems that the Euro was just ill conceived, despite some making strong warnings about it before it was launched. It makes you wonder whether tighter integration was always on the cards, with the Euro as a mechanism to force it through, but I try not to get too into conspiracy theories! Maybe it will survive in one form or another, but it seems far from an optimal currency.

TBH, I'd rather see some genuine free market currencies start to make progress. With the Internet and smart phones, we have the means. I don't just mean yellow stuff and their ilk either - promises are simple to trade, with or without banks. I wonder how long it will be before culture changes to embrace this?

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Quite funny that a very anti-immigration party is making such big strides as Finland hardly takes in any immigrants. Very strict (correct me if I am wrong). It's not JUST anti immigration mind, that post was perhaps a bit oversimplistic. I'm sure the Finns on here (not that I've seen any) - can help add some more perspective. Another big thing for the True Finns is that they want to remove the mandatory Swedish lessons in schools (the country has both Swedish and Finnish as national language afaik) - but the 300.000 or so Swedish speaking finns aren't too happy about it).

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Who'd a thunk it? People not overjoyed at being managed and ordered about by unelected beareaucrats in another land. What strange times we live in :rolleyes:

so lets have a quick headcount of who has a profound dislike of a federalist EU.

United Kingdom

France

Ireland

Netherlands

Denmark

Sweden

Finland

...any more takers?

Germany?(they are going to find out the hard way that empire-building costs a lot of money....and lives)...and there's plenty of room for asylum seekers if they have been trying to poach spanish engineers while the spanish have 20% unemployment,talk about opportunism.

Italy......well the government are actually in flagrant contravention of the EU asylum legislation,as it allows domicile in the first and nearest port of entry,so no fobbing off on everybody else....of course,germany do have some quite lucrative contarct with libya,and also iran(see siemens gear in iranian reactors),

looks like the old axis is reforming again does it not?

......just wait for russia to switch sides,that'll be interesting!..germany might think they have some lucrative trade deals at the moment(and trying to forment conflict between US/UK/Isreal and Russia to mutually neutralise each other in order to gain hegemony)

...but there's a few ruskies who also know the game

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Right wing national parties are going to get more and more popular.

Welcome to the 1920/30's...you will rememebr what happened in 1939 wont you....

Maybe, but unless the Fins are planning world domination I'd say this is the total opposite of the 30's

The German Nazis' raison d'etre was the abolition of the national state,"right wing" parties such as UKIP etc are trying to protect it from an overly zealous central power.

The UK has lived with Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalism for centuries remember, yet I don't see anyone comparing Alex Salmond to Adolph and his National Socialists.

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I believe to fulfil biblical prophecy the EU must first collapse then regroup as 10 states . Then we're in the do-do (grabs tin foil hat and heads for anderson shelter) :ph34r:

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Right wing national parties are going to get more and more popular.

Welcome to the 1920/30's...you will rememebr what happened in 1939 wont you....

Really? the NSDAP and the Fascists were parties of the socialist left, FDR ran one of the most left wing governments the US has ever had, and Labour became Britain's 2nd party in the 1920s.

The 1920s and 30s look pretty left wing to me.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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