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Red Tape Challenge

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http://www.redtapechallenge.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/home/index/

1. We publish

Every few weeks we publish all the regulations affecting one specific sector or industry

2. You respond

You tell us what’s working and what’s not, what can be simplified and what can be scrapped

3. We act

Based on your feedback, we start getting rid of unnecessary red tape

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Elf 'n safety regulations need to be relaxed, though to do this, the government would need to first crack down on the compensation culture/ fee chasing lawyers.

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gor blimey, elf n safety gone mad etc.

Someone remind me why we have hardly any disasters now when in the 80's we were having one every year with bodycounts of 30+ - Kings Cross, Clapham, Zeebrugge, Kegworth, Manchester Airport, Bradford, Hillsborough, Piper Alpha, Marchioness - and when something bad does happen nowadays, like the Grayrigg train crash in cumbria, the casualties are minimal...

Oh yeah, improved health and safety

I'm happy with the cotton wool thanks.

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gor blimey, elf n safety gone mad etc.

Someone remind me why we have hardly any disasters now when in the 80's we were having one every year with bodycounts of 30+ - Kings Cross, Clapham, Zeebrugge, Kegworth, Manchester Airport, Bradford, Hillsborough, Piper Alpha, Marchioness - and when something bad does happen nowadays, like the Grayrigg train crash in cumbria, the casualties are minimal...

Oh yeah, improved health and safety

I'm happy with the cotton wool thanks.

Someone remind me where we still have something in the ballpark of ten violent deaths per day, and society just shrugs.

If today's elf-n-safety is proportionate, then so is a total ban on the car, instantly saving 100 times more lives.

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Bloody uppity worker scum. Where do they get off thinking they

can work without having to worry about losing a limb or being

permanently incapacitated through contact with some workplace

toxin? It's not how they do it it China, that's why their economy is booming!

Bloody lazy maimed ex worker scum. Where do they get off thinking they deserve

benefits for being too stupid to keep their body parts away from unguarded

machinery!!!

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Someone remind me where we still have something in the ballpark of ten violent deaths per day, and society just shrugs.

If today's elf-n-safety is proportionate, then so is a total ban on the car, instantly saving 100 times more lives.

You've got a point, car drivers kill more children than paedophiles, yet they have pressure groups that try to remove anything that stands in their way of their crazy need for speed

Edited by noodle doodle

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You've got a point, car drivers kill more children than paedophiles, yet they have pressure groups that try to remove anything that stands in their way of their crazy need for speed

How about computer and screen violence? All that campaigning, yet no one complains about rallying or formula 1 on telly/computer games. If you genuinely believe that violent behaviour increases with visual/interactive stimuli, then surely dangerous driving and speeding must increase similarly? It's about time we got all this speed freakery filth off the telly...

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How about computer and screen violence? All that campaigning, yet no one complains about rallying or formula 1 on telly/computer games. If you genuinely believe that violent behaviour increases with visual/interactive stimuli, then surely dangerous driving and speeding must increase similarly? It's about time we got all this speed freakery filth off the telly...

congrats lads, that is the FASTEST move to off topic I have seen so far :P

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gor blimey, elf n safety gone mad etc.

Someone remind me why we have hardly any disasters now when in the 80's we were having one every year with bodycounts of 30+ - Kings Cross, Clapham, Zeebrugge, Kegworth, Manchester Airport, Bradford, Hillsborough, Piper Alpha, Marchioness - and when something bad does happen nowadays, like the Grayrigg train crash in cumbria, the casualties are minimal...

Oh yeah, improved health and safety

I'm happy with the cotton wool thanks.

My uncle was told by an H&S inspector to put 'warning: hot water' signs over the hot water taps (already labelled with a red 'H' for 'hot') in his business premises. Thank goodness his workers are protected from the deadly threat of hot water coming out of hot water taps!

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gor blimey, elf n safety gone mad etc.

Someone remind me why we have hardly any disasters now when in the 80's we were having one every year with bodycounts of 30+ - Kings Cross, Clapham, Zeebrugge, Kegworth, Manchester Airport, Bradford, Hillsborough, Piper Alpha, Marchioness - and when something bad does happen nowadays, like the Grayrigg train crash in cumbria, the casualties are minimal...

Oh yeah, improved health and safety

I'm happy with the cotton wool thanks.

+1

If today's elf-n-safety is proportionate, then so is a total ban on the car, instantly saving 100 times more lives.

Err...no, because there are huge positives of cars which outweigh the negatives.

Proportionate health and safety is about finding the optimum balance of cost vs lives saved, not about banning everyday items just because some people have accidents with them.

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gor blimey, elf n safety gone mad etc.

I'm happy with the cotton wool thanks.

You can have my fluffy stuff then in that case.

Because of fire safety rules. I and a colleague have to pick up and put down furniture weighing well over 50 kgs ten times to open and close fire doors, when moving furniture to my truck at ground level from an office on 15th floor using an elevator. No it is not practical to use trolleys because of the shape of furniture. No a banksman cannot help as these particular corridors are too narrow for three men and furniture near any doorway.

elf and madness doesnt look after our backs in a situation like this. This is not unique it often the norm, in many older offices and public places.

I have to fill in a ten page elf and madness form every time we move furniture in public places.

Stuff it. I know it helps cut down accidents but even so....stuff it.

I`ve been moving furniture for nigh on twenty five years using common sense as my guide to never having an accident. Now because of looking over my shoulder (metaphorically)in regards to elf and madness, I`ve decided to let other upright sheep do the work then at least courts will feel no guilt when sueing one who walks into a pedestrian because these pedestrians are walking blindly into an accident as they know cotton wool and elf and madness will look after em.....I know many other trades who will not work in some public situations because the rules are too blind to common sense, and just too f*in numerous

rant over B)

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You've got a point, car drivers kill more children than paedophiles, yet they have pressure groups that try to remove anything that stands in their way of their crazy need for speed

The connection between speeding and accidents is extremely tenuous at best.

Negligent driving within the speed limit and accidents, more of a connection.

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Err...no, because there are huge positives of cars which outweigh the negatives.

Proportionate health and safety is about finding the optimum balance of cost vs lives saved, not about banning everyday items just because some people have accidents with them.

I quite agree about Health & Safety. It all depends on the culture of the organization.

In a former job, the company's HSEQ philosophy was known as "Operational Excellence". It was based around the idea that every person in the company from the porters in the loading bay right up to the board members should be doing their best to be as safe, efficient and environmentally responsible as possible in everything they did from opening a box or changing a light-bulb up to strategic planning abd writing reports for share-holders.

All employees were expected to make suggestions about how the company could be improved. There wasn't a "Health & Safety" jobsworth coming in and giving us top-down pronouncements on our hot water taps.

I've worked in other places where the culture was that you keep your head down and get on with your work. I know which I prefer.

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My uncle was told by an H&S inspector to put 'warning: hot water' signs over the hot water taps (already labelled with a red 'H' for 'hot') in his business premises. Thank goodness his workers are protected from the deadly threat of hot water coming out of hot water taps!

The ones at work have those but they are hot enough to scald, they should really fix it instead of having a warning sign :lol:

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My uncle was told by an H&S inspector to put 'warning: hot water' signs over the hot water taps (already labelled with a red 'H' for 'hot') in his business premises. Thank goodness his workers are protected from the deadly threat of hot water coming out of hot water taps!

We've got warning signs on our toilet doors saying something like "Caution, this door may be opened from the other side". Apparently someone once opened the door from the inside just as another person was pushing it from the outside. The guy on the outside fell onto the guy who opened it from the inside. So they put a sign up to warn people about the dangerous doors. Might be a better idea to not make the flipping door so heavy that it needs a monumental shove to open the damn thing.

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Err...no, because there are huge positives of cars which outweigh the negatives.

Proportionate health and safety is about finding the optimum balance of cost vs lives saved, not about banning everyday items just because some people have accidents with them.

Yep, they replaced horses, which were notorious for bolting, created an urban health hazard with their manure, and kicked to death countless people.

On a mile-for-mile basis, cars are far safer.. Then there's the benefits of ambulances, etc.

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Someone remind me where we still have something in the ballpark of ten violent deaths per day, and society just shrugs.

If today's elf-n-safety is proportionate, then so is a total ban on the car, instantly saving 100 times more lives.

Pre Health and Safety at Work Act etc 1974 deaths were in the region of 1000 per year.

Now it is around 200. Some of this is accounted for by changes in industry.

Whilst some of the secondary regulations could do with the chop I would not mess with the Act itself. It is one of the best and well written pieces of legislation this Country has, Also help make it one of the safest in the world to work in.

Also its a mistake to focus just on deaths - in occupational safety and health terms this is just the tip of the iceberg.

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We've got warning signs on our toilet doors saying something like "Caution, this door may be opened from the other side". Apparently someone once opened the door from the inside just as another person was pushing it from the outside. The guy on the outside fell onto the guy who opened it from the inside. So they put a sign up to warn people about the dangerous doors. Might be a better idea to not make the flipping door so heavy that it needs a monumental shove to open the damn thing.

That has nothing to do with H&S regulation and everything to do with compo culture.

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You can have my fluffy stuff then in that case.

Because of fire safety rules. I and a colleague have to pick up and put down furniture weighing well over 50 kgs ten times to open and close fire doors, when moving furniture to my truck at ground level from an office on 15th floor using an elevator. No it is not practical to use trolleys because of the shape of furniture. No a banksman cannot help as these particular corridors are too narrow for three men and furniture near any doorway.

elf and madness doesnt look after our backs in a situation like this. This is not unique it often the norm, in many older offices and public places.

I have to fill in a ten page elf and madness form every time we move furniture in public places.

Stuff it. I know it helps cut down accidents but even so....stuff it.

I`ve been moving furniture for nigh on twenty five years using common sense as my guide to never having an accident. Now because of looking over my shoulder (metaphorically)in regards to elf and madness, I`ve decided to let other upright sheep do the work then at least courts will feel no guilt when sueing one who walks into a pedestrian because these pedestrians are walking blindly into an accident as they know cotton wool and elf and madness will look after em.....I know many other trades who will not work in some public situations because the rules are too blind to common sense, and just too f*in numerous

rant over B)

Err - shouldn't your access to the fire doors be unimpeded in the first place?

Edit - sorry misread your point. Brain in half mode, I thought you meant fire escapes.

Edited by Kurt Barlow

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Elf 'n safety regulations need to be relaxed, though to do this, the government would need to first crack down on the compensation culture/ fee chasing lawyers.

Until companies and insurers stop settling spurious claims on 'commercial terms' the compo culture will continue to grow and grow.

If anything adherence to regulatory health and safety is a huge defence to these claims - should you want to defend them as I did when I used to work in the Pub sector.

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My uncle was told by an H&S inspector to put 'warning: hot water' signs over the hot water taps (already labelled with a red 'H' for 'hot') in his business premises. Thank goodness his workers are protected from the deadly threat of hot water coming out of hot water taps!

Ok - I can see the lack of need here in an workplace occupied by adults but as someone else pointed out why not fix the problem in the first place? Normal hot water would not require signage if at 55-60 degrees (too cool to cause an instantaneous burn and if it was a school or crumblies home put TMV's on to limit it to 44 degrees.

Also even if the signage requirement seems frivolous its not going to break the bank now is it? Although I dare some will tell me a relaxation of 'this requirement' will change Britain beyond recognition in a positive way :D

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Guest eight

How about computer and screen violence? All that campaigning, yet no one complains about rallying or formula 1 on telly/computer games. If you genuinely believe that violent behaviour increases with visual/interactive stimuli, then surely dangerous driving and speeding must increase similarly? It's about time we got all this speed freakery filth off the telly...

Twenty years of exposure to tobacco advertising in F1 never made me start smoking. In fact, were the theory to hold water, me just typing "Marlboro" should make you want to smoke a tiny weeny bit.

Maybe people are smarter than society gives them credit for.

eight

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My uncle was told by an H&S inspector to put 'warning: hot water' signs over the hot water taps (already labelled with a red 'H' for 'hot') in his business premises. Thank goodness his workers are protected from the deadly threat of hot water coming out of hot water taps!

Nothing to do with hot water, more to do with legal protection against being sued......like the majority of H&S, we warned you because you are stupid....nothing to do with us now, not our fault. ;)

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Nothing to do with hot water, more to do with legal protection against being sued......like the majority of H&S, we warned you because you are stupid....nothing to do with us now, not our fault. ;)

If the sink\basin is not fitted with a thermostatic mixing valve to bring the hot water to 43c or below

then there has to be a sign warning of hot water afair.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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