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Economic Growth Not Key To Happiness

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The Conservatives have identified that the key to real happpiness is shopping at Tesco's, cheap flights on Ryanair and watching Sky on a 42 inch plasma.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2011/04/conservatives-should-celebrate-tesco-sky-glaxo-and-ryanair.html#more

Conservatives should celebrate Tesco, Sky, Glaxo and Ryanair

I don't know if anyone has tried to quantify the effect of innovation and competition but millions of Britons now have access to a much richer quality of life for the same income.

The drivers of this improvement are the entertainment companies such as Sky which have brought multi-channel TV and infinitely improved sports coverage into every living room.

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i kind of agree with this shift to valuing happiness instead of just GDP growth every year.

if you work longer for more money are you better off?

if you find a higher paying job but need to commute 2 hours each day, are you better off?

maybe more poeple will wake up to the fact that earning more money working 60 hours a week to pay £300,000 for a terraced house, doesnt make you happy, and base the value of a house on the quality of life it will give you rather than as an asset.

Edited by mfp123

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i kind of agree with this shift to valuing happiness instead of just GDP growth every year.

if you work longer for more money are you better off?

if you find a higher paying job but need to commute 2 hours each day, are you better off?

maybe more poeple will wake up to the fact that earning more money working 60 hours a week to pay £300,000 for a terraced house, doesnt make you happy, and base the value of a house on the quality of life it will give you rather than as an asset.

No it wears you out. ;)

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They forgot something - the 3 cases of Strongbow for £20 deals.

Sit at home having your brain fried by Sky drinking Strongbow to numb the pain while you destroy your body with cheap processed crap from the supermarket. Then treat yourself to an overpriced 10pm flight to a second rate airport in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah let's celebrate it. FFS :lol:

All paid for on a credit card of course

Edited by needsleep

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Sounds like the underlying point is cheaper prices make us richer.

An only slightly tongue-in-cheek celebration of deflation (when deflation is measured by price indexes).

Not quite a quality-of-life measure as hinted at in the thread title, but a dig at the bogus logic that GDP is everything.

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Isn't most economic growth just really inflation ?

GDP has increased by 1.4% this year. Doesn't that just mean the numbers involved have increased by 1.4% this year - is what actually sits behind those numbers even considered/included ?

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I'd be happier if the country downsized...got rid of all the s**t we don't need and had a better standard of living for maybe 30 or so million people.

I'd move somewhere like switzerland, norway, finland if I could, they seem to have got it right.

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"Give all your money to our corporate chummies"

Rupert, Mick and Terry will be delighted to hear this is The Bullingdon Boys vision.

(Since when did 'every living room' have SKY? - I'd rather chew my right arm off than pay that slimey f*cker a penny)

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Having fun makes you happy. Of course - how you choose to have fun is up to you.

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I suspect most people would lead the happiest of lives if, as in the garden of eden, they never needed for anything.

Edward Bernays has a lot to answer for; his work lead to the consumer society in which the naive (all too many people sadly) mistakenly believe they must pursue the latest fad; rather than making us happier, consumerism is cause of so much discontent.

Give anyone the choice of living in paradise or moping about a cold, soaking wet, wind-swept High Street with its buy now pay only 29% APR culture, I am guessing most would choose the former over the latter any day.

Edited by Dave Spart

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Isn't most economic growth just really inflation ?

GDP has increased by 1.4% this year. Doesn't that just mean the numbers involved have increased by 1.4% this year - is what actually sits behind those numbers even considered/included ?

No you can have high price inflation and low growth (which is what they UK is getting now).

However I don't understand the assumption people make that growth is wealth. If you halved the UK population you'd reduce the growth, but those who remain would be considerably wealthier overall.

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Guest sillybear2

The political economy is too obsessed with meaningless baubles. You have to pity people who believe they have everything; yet in reality have nothing.

"Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product – if we judge the United States of America by that – that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman’s rifle and Speck’s knife. And the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.

"Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it can tell us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans."

Robert F. Kennedy

University of Kansas

March 18, 1968

Anyway, when is the iPad 3 due?

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Isn't most economic growth just really inflation ?

GDP has increased by 1.4% this year. Doesn't that just mean the numbers involved have increased by 1.4% this year - is what actually sits behind those numbers even considered/included ?

Surely the figure should be inflation-adjusted and per capita to give us an idea of actual wealth?

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The political economy is too obsessed with meaningless baubles. You have to pity people who believe they have everything; yet in reality have nothing.

"Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product – if we judge the United States of America by that – that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman’s rifle and Speck’s knife. And the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.

"Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it can tell us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans."

Robert F. Kennedy

University of Kansas

March 18, 1968

Anyway, when is the iPad 3 due?

Dunno, but someone killed him 68 days after saying that.

rfkshot.jpg

Edited by Reck B

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Guest sillybear2

Modern insanity, it's like something straight out of Millennium People.

I guess the people of Edmonton found themselves overwhelmed by such a momentous occasion. Either that or they're all a bunch of grasping f**kwits.

Edited by sillybear2

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i kind of agree with this shift to valuing happiness instead of just GDP growth every year.

if you work longer for more money are you better off?

I agree too that happiness is what matters - but that balance is different for everyone. There comes a point for everyone where the extra hour's work isn't worth the money, but for some people that's the 15th hour and some the 50th.

maybe more poeple will wake up to the fact that earning more money working 60 hours a week to pay £300,000 for a terraced house, doesnt make you happy

It might not make you happy, but for some people it could. Not everyone is the same, and that's not because they're wrong it's because we're all different.

A day at the cricket might be the highlight of my year, and yet to you a waste of a day of life. Each to their own.

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Are you all monks or something?

Happiness is highly subjective but most people have rather simple wants and needs which should be relatively easy to provide. Even iphones, certainly enough people have them it seems.

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Guest sillybear2

Are you all monks or something?

Happiness is highly subjective but most people have rather simple wants and needs which should be relatively easy to provide. Even iphones, certainly enough people have them it seems.

Don't judge, the monks of Buckfast Abbey understand happiness, it seems heaven on earth consists of a sickly combination of copious amounts of caffeine, alcohol and sugar. It's the tonic that heals ya ;)

Edited by sillybear2

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No you can have high price inflation and low growth (which is what they UK is getting now).

However I don't understand the assumption people make that growth is wealth. If you halved the UK population you'd reduce the growth, but those who remain would be considerably wealthier overall.

Yes but isn't a factor of that 'growth' inflation in itself ? I just wonder what the 'growth' is based on. I am sure the details are all out there if I can be arsed looking for them. I fear it may hurt my head though.

Surely the figure should be inflation-adjusted and per capita to give us an idea of actual wealth?

Well that is sort of what I was thinking.

Factory A sells 100 goods this year for £1 each.

Factory A sells 100 goods next year for £1.10 each. Due to the increase in costs of imported materials.

Surely these figures get into the GDP total somewhere along the line ? And if so does this translate to 10% 'growth' when in fact no such thing has taken place ?

Edited by ccc

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Guest sillybear2

Well that is sort of what I was thinking.

Factory A sells 100 goods this year for £1 each.

Factory A sells 100 goods next year for £1.10 each. Due to the increase in costs of imported materials.

Surely these figures get into the GDP total somewhere along the line ? And if so does this translate to 10% 'growth' when in fact no such thing has taken place ?

The GDP deflator should exclude purely inflationary "growth", but it seems as crooked as any other measure. If you think we're entering another technical recession you can just skew the figures a little so that near hyper-inflation and zero growth stagflation becomes "solid growth".

That's why Scott Sumner wants the UK to go a bit Argentinian and simply target "nominal GDP". Thankfully the UK isn't directly tied to some crazed Teutonic cousin with his boots on our nads, but even so this path isn't pain free.

Edited by sillybear2

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The GDP deflator should exclude purely inflationary "growth", but it seems as crooked as any other measure. If you think we're entering another technical recession you can just skew the figures a little so that near hyper-inflation and zero growth stagflation becomes "solid growth".

That's why Scott Sumner wants the UK to go a bit Argentinian and simply target "nominal GDP". Thankfully the UK isn't directly tied to some crazed Teutonic cousin with his boots on our nads, but even so this path isn't pain free.

I see. As you say though - every easy to massage it a few bits of a percentage point here and there. Hence no growth becomes growth- whoopee.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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