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The Ability To Work And Pay For Your Own Property. [Niall Ferguson]

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The Ability to Work and Pay for your Own Property.

How important is it?

[Not to you. But To your Country?]

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I was watching an episode from Niall Ferguson's recent T.V series: Civilisation. Is the West History? PROPERTY. [4OD]

Ferguson attempts to portray the last five hundred years of human history as the supremacy of 'the west' over the backwardness of the rest.

He cites six 'identifiable novel complexes of institutions and associated ideas and behaviour's at the root of this supposed western superiority; competition, science, private property rights, medicine, the consumer society, and the work ethic.

I want to concentrate on Private Property Rights

Ferguson argues that 'private property rights' are an essential ingredient of a "western" pattern civilization.

Private property rights were one of the main ingredient's in the development of democracy in the North American Continent.

The new 'Americans' were given land when they arrived, [whereas on the south American continent private property rights were non existent. These Rights were never established.]

The United States then became the world's first property owning democracy.

This being one of the major contributing factors to the United States becoming the dominant force in the world, [as a pose to South America. Even though South America was by far the richer country, and 500 years ago, was far more likely to become the dominant future global power.]

So the North American system of wide property ownership, was the basis of the economic success of the United States.

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Q.] What lessons will China learn, from the undemocratic, non private property owning South American model, as a pose to a successful, world dominant, Private Property owning, democratic North American model?

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Moving Forward, what lessons can we learn from this in the UK?

What will happen in the UK as the dream of property ownership becomes obselete?

Should we work for nothing, for the rest of our lives? No Capital. As Debt Slaves? Without Incentive.

Faced with such in-equality, do we have a duty to revolt against a return to such feudalism, A corporate-ocracy, run by thieving bankers, politicians, and land grabbers?

It's already happened, [in large part thanks to 13 years of Labour government sponsored fraud and theft.] And the continuing in-action of the present Government.

Edited by Dan1

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Surely the day the 'property owning democracy' dies is the day people no longer have a vested interest (regardless of how illusionary it is) in keeping the whole inflationary ponzi going. At the moment, home'owners' vote for economic mismanagement because they 'feel' richer (even if in truth it costs them)

Maybe its what we need.

Actually watched Wall Street last night. Never much into it, people seem to think the 'greed is good' line at the AGM or whatever is the most important one. I disagree, but i think the bit in the office where he goes on about how wealth is distributed is from real estate speculation is good. Always thought Wall Street was more about insider trading, when in fact it does illustrate a lot of our problems now.

Every street is now wall street. No one wants to work, everyone wants to speculate.

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...it's important for the country as they don't have to provide for you ...also in the past property rights as security have been used to raise capital for business or other enterprises ...the model is ruptured in a recession, falling property prices, post government bubble and dubious practices within the legal, property /estate agency & financial services industries which have stuttered forward without being brought to account..... :rolleyes:

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I think the best book on this is "The Mystery of Capital", by Hernando De Soto. (think thats right).

I think he is Peruvian, so he has a not quite western perspective.

His main argument was that without recognition by the state for an individual to own property, they cannot invest and make things better, because that property can be taken from them. If what they do by way of improvement is defended by the state, it encourages patterns of behaviour that enable growth. Like building a factory, you can only do that if you are certain that the state or someone else wont take it from you.

I buy his argument about this, it makes sense to me. You cannot have growth unless you let all your citizens have a go at making it big, and defending their rights to ownership.

He also talks about squatters rights, and the far sighted judges who gave title to those using the land unchallenged. Use it or lose it is a good principle too. Give ownership to those who are actually using something, so if you own and and leave it, you can and should lose it if someone else can make better use of the same resources. If you are using it though, the state should defend your ownership.

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I think the best book on this is "The Mystery of Capital", by Hernando De Soto. (think thats right).

I think he is Peruvian, so he has a not quite western perspective.

I think Ive seen a documentary with him in it before. He was the guy who was fighting for the 'individual property rights' rights of native amazonian Indians, against the government. As a pose to placing them in a reservation, each should be entitled to private property rights, stating this bit of jungle is mine........[Think he was touted for a nobel peace prize or some such for this work]

http://en.wikipedia....u_and_elsewhere

It says on here he implemented Private Property [titles to small cocoa farmers] which thwarted The shining Path. [Most successful anti government terrorist organisation ever] Didnt know that.

[Just Read 'The Dancer Upstairs' by Nicholas Shakespeare ref The Shining Path movement. Great Novel. And great Movie starring Javier bardem, directed by John Malkovitch]

Edited by Dan1

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I think Ive seen a documentary with him in it before. He was the guy who was fighting for the 'individual property rights' rights of native amazonian Indians, against the government. As a pose to placing them in a reservation, each should be entitled to private property rights, stating this bit of jungle is mine........[Think he was touted for a nobel peace prize or some such for this work]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto_Polar#Reforms_in_Peru_and_elsewhere

It says on here he implemented policy which thwarted The shining Path. Didnt know that.

[Just Read 'The Dancer Upstairs' by Nicholas Shakespeare ref The Shining Path movement. Great Novel. And great Movie starring Javier bardem, directed by John Malkovitch]

That was him.

I think has work against "The Shining Path" was really to ensure that the people that supported them were given the same rights as everyone else. Persecute people and steal from them, and you are likely to get a violent rebellion. After all, what else can you do in that situation.

When the power of the law protects people from theft by powerful people, and you can keep what your produce (some tax is acceptable), there is nothing much to fight for, and a lot to lose by fighting. Rebellions are usually a sign that the powerful are trodding on the poor and disenfranchised, though they will do their very best to portray the rebels as the terrorists and the cause of the problems.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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