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guitarman001

Tuition Fees

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This has been done to death... however I haven't had my say :)

Having benefited from zero tuition fees up here in Scotland, with only the student loan to pay back (which is large enough)... I really despair for anybody having to pay these £7k+ fees every year for University. Honestly, wont we just see attendance fall off a cliff? Hopefully this wasn't just an 'easy' way to finally push people into useful subjects instead of studying tripe. Studying engineering was the best thing I ever did - I almost never did it due to the thought of the debt at the end (family is not 'in the money'!)... in fact I almost got a job at Standard Life instead...! Uni education has gone from being very affordable decades ago, to a little more expensive the last decade... and now astronomically expensive, down South anyway. I don't know what to say except that I feel VERY lucky to have got in when I did (yet again with anything British you seem to benefit largely depending on a 'time' lottery... when you got in on something). I feel very sad for those that will now not be able to go. I felt privileged during my study of engineering, and privileged to this day... my job is hugely enjoyable and I have a lot of prospects; it has really changed my life for the better.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out in a decade's time. In the meantime, while fees are still free up here... I hope that lasts long enough for my little sister to finish school and get herself a good, useful degree.

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I think number will fall massively, yes.

There are still millions of young people who believe the hype that a humanities degree from a middle of the road Uni, or even a crappy one, will land them a 'good job'. However, there are millions who see older siblings in McJobs with their 2:1 'good degrees' and can see that unless you are targeting a course with some guarantee of very well paid employment the numbers don't stack up.

Most jobs growth is in the lowest paid sectors and it's been that way for years. If you get a £20k loan to buy a car at least you get the car. £60-70k debt for a degree and you may get nothing of value.

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The upfront cost will actually fall though - the students won't have to dig in their pockets or take out a loan for the £3k pa they have to give at the moment.

To be entirely honest they should simply have called it the graduate tax it is and have done with it - you pay it after you start earning an income. You don't pay the Uni - the government does, and then you pay the government back over your working life. You pay a fixed percentage of income irrespective of rate of interest etc. You can't overpay. If your income is high you will pay more than you owe. If your income is low you will pay less than you owe. After a certain amount of time anything left over on the debt is wiped out. How is that really a debt? It's not - it's a graduate tax.

Any idea that courses are free in Scotland etc is equally silly. They have just rolled the costs (which are exactly the same (~£6k for a arts, rising to ~£12k for heavily lab based, or ~£20k for medical per student)) into general taxation, which will mean either a tax rise or service reduction elsewhere to fund the course costs.

The question of whether a particularly degree is useful or not is of course entirely separate to this debate although I was glad to see that the government is going to maintain some level of subsidy on STEM subjects (which is how we can continue to offer them despite the £9k being less than the cost per student of science and engineering courses).

Edited to add - It's also wrong to think that Uni education was cheaper years ago too. The inflation adjusted per student cost is much lower than it used to be. Again because you paid this in general taxation you didn't notice it. You still paid it though.

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I heard recently that the number of schoolchildren entering university has gone from something like 15% in the 1970s, 30% in 1990 to 45% now. If this is the case, then it's no wonder at all that it's much more expensive than it used to be.

I've tried searching for a link to the stats but I'm one of the ones who didn't go, so am therefore too stupid to find them.

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I heard recently that the number of schoolchildren entering university has gone from something like 15% in the 1970s, 30% in 1990 to 45% now. If this is the case, then it's no wonder at all that it's much more expensive than it used to be.

I've tried searching for a link to the stats but I'm one of the ones who didn't go, so am therefore too stupid to find them.

5% in the late 80s I thought

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http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6060315

Degree-level courses should increasingly be shorter, part-time and work- related, Mr Willetts said, raising the possibility of increasing the amount of HE work in FE colleges

I think that is what will eventually happen..FE colleges will do FE & HE education - my local college does this at the moment...A lot of courses will become sandwich based, or they will be run by large companies on their own site (for instance Harrods started this a year or two ago)... Far too much emphasis, under Labia, was placed on purely academic subjects...which is not everyone's cup of tea...

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5% in the late 80s I thought

Could be. I've invented a new acronym - CBAG - Can't Be Bothered Googling.

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Most jobs growth is in the lowest paid sectors and it's been that way for years. If you get a £20k loan to buy a car at least you get the car. £60-70k debt for a degree and you may get nothing of value.

A degree isn't THAT worthless, in that they serve a purpose. Many countries have put up entry barriers for work visas mandating you need at least a degree before they'll let you in. China and S Korea in the past 5ish years put this barrier to entry up. Without that bit of paper you aren't getting in. Richard vanished off to Thailand and is now in Taiwan but couldn't get anything related to his biology degree other than a lab tech an NMW. So he simply left and welched on his massive massive loans.

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I heard recently that the number of schoolchildren entering university has gone from something like 15% in the 1970s, 30% in 1990 to 45% now. If this is the case, then it's no wonder at all that it's much more expensive than it used to be.

Instead of raising fees they should plainly state they'll only fund courses they think the economy needs: engineering, maths, business, medicine, law etc etc...?

ken... technically your mate will still have to pay that loan back. Do you think if he comes back to the UK he will get found out? Let me know if he gets away with it - always wondered how many people do!

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Instead of raising fees they should plainly state they'll only fund courses they think the economy needs: engineering, maths, business, medicine, law etc etc...?

ken... technically your mate will still have to pay that loan back. Do you think if he comes back to the UK he will get found out? Let me know if he gets away with it - always wondered how many people do!

Their still maintaining STEM funding at between 30 - 60% depending on the quality of the Uni. That is why Unis can afford to offer STEM courses even though most cost more than 9k per student because of the lab element.

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Their still maintaining STEM funding at between 30 - 60% depending on the quality of the Uni. That is why Unis can afford to offer STEM courses even though most cost more than 9k per student because of the lab element.

What lab element?

(speaking as a maths graduate) B)

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ken... technically your mate will still have to pay that loan back. Do you think if he comes back to the UK he will get found out? Let me know if he gets away with it - always wondered how many people do!

Richard is more of an acquaintance tbh I don't like to associate with him anymore as he's one of those sex tourists who ESLs in Asia.

Anyway the thing is YOURE supposed to tell the SLC when you go overseas, it is an honour system.... they don't have links to passport control therefore they only know you're gone if you tell them. You're supposed to tell the UK government too if you intend to spend time out the country. Nobody bothers to though.

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What lab element?

(speaking as a maths graduate) B)

Maths is cheap because you can do it all in your head, and need a pencil at most!

Art needs paints and sculpting tools! :blink:

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What lab element?

(speaking as a maths graduate) B)

:rolleyes:

Why I said 'most' - obviously the mathematicians just need to work it out with a pencil.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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