izzy Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374487/Its-prison-Parents-fury-600-children-receive-detention-days-rules-crackdown.html Sounds like the Teachers want to get paid for doing nothing. I mean how long can this booklet be to keep pupils occupied for 5 hours? How is wearing odd socks disrupting the class? And what's wrong with eating between lessons? Far better to have a quick snack between classes rather than listen to everyone's rumbly tummies and be too hungry to concentrate. The head at this school must be a ridiculous pedant. Rules are all very well but stupid rules don't do anyone any favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 This isn't tough love. This is kidnapping, threats of or actual assault, extortion via fixed markets in qualifications and then blaming the victim. If you really believe that you have every right to teach your kids yourself. The facts about home education are: * you do not need to be a qualified teacher to educate your child at home * your child is not obliged to follow the National Curriculum or take national tests, but as a parent you are required by law to ensure your child receives full-time education suitable to their age, ability and aptitude * any special educational needs your child may have must be recognised * you do not need special permission from a school or local authority to educate your child at home, but you do need to notify the school in writing if you're taking your child out of school * you will need to notify the local authority if you are removing your child from a special school * you do not need to observe school hours, days or terms * you do not need to have a fixed timetable, nor give formal lessons * there are no funds directly available from central government for parents who decide to educate their children at home * some local authorities provide guidance for parents, including free National Curriculum materials Home Schooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 How is wearing odd socks disrupting the class? And what's wrong with eating between lessons? Far better to have a quick snack between classes rather than listen to everyone's rumbly tummies and be too hungry to concentrate. The head at this school must be a ridiculous pedant. Rules are all very well but stupid rules don't do anyone any favours. You're right, it's very pedantic. But I think you are getting drawn into the detail. It's not about controlling children's eating habits or removing their right to be individual.. it's simply about setting some boundaries that are easy to follow and then enforcing them. Once kids learn that the boundaries can't be broken, you can then start to relax the rules again. Give and take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Sensible post. Please be banished from the off topic for a week to think of the errors of your way. I'll get off my soap box now and consider myself banished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 If you really believe that you have every right to teach your kids yourself. And apply to for my tax refund where, exactly? Home Schooling Yes, you are free to not educate your kids according to the national curriculum or make them sit gcses. Unless they want to work at anything beyond picking up tins and weighing them in at the tip later in life, go to university, emigrate etc etc I think of it as "****** you freedom." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 You're right, it's very pedantic. But I think you are getting drawn into the detail. It's not about controlling children's eating habits or removing their right to be individual.. it's simply about setting some boundaries that are easy to follow and then enforcing them. Once kids learn that the boundaries can't be broken, you can then start to relax the rules again. Give and take. I don't agree. You need to set the boundaries where they should logically be drawn. If you invent all sorts of bonkers rules you will get a disciplinary system that no one can adhere to. With 600 detentions in this school this is exactly what has happened. In Fabianist systems (which is what this head has basically created) everyone starts to 'interpret' all the rules because the whole system is too confusing and good rules are ignored just as much as the bad ones. Imagine they produced a rule at work that you could only walk at a speed of 50-61 paces per minute. Would you consider that rule reasonable? Would it enhance your work performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 "Banned behaviour includes chewing gum, wearing odd socks, eating between lessons, running, wearing excessive make-up or using 'visible' earphones or mobile phones." I see no problem with children at school having to: (And I'm pretty certain these things don't actually make school a prison) - wear school uniform - be punctual - be well behaved - not use mobile phones in lessons - not use mp3 players in lessons unless as part of the lesson. - not eat in class or chew gum - not wear excessive jewellery. (Mainly cos Chantelle's massive earrings do actually pose a health risk if she gets them caught on anything) - not run round like eejits between lessons I don't care if they have extreme hair styles or wear masses of makeup though. I wouldn't ever be a teacher because I think too many lazy **** parents expect schools to teach their kids how to behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I don't agree. You need to set the boundaries where they should logically be drawn. If you invent all sorts of bonkers rules you will get a disciplinary system that no one can adhere to. With 600 detentions in this school this is exactly what has happened. Imagine they produced a rule at work that you could only walk at a speed of 50-61 paces per minute. Would you consider that rule reasonable? Would it enhance your work performance? There were 236 on the first day, dropping to 115 within four days. But again, I think you are getting drawn into the detail. You argue that kids can't wear the correct socks, can't refrain from smoking, can't stop dropping litter etc. I disagree. Unlike your example of introducing an impossibly complex regulation governing walking speed, these rules are actually quite straight forward and generally no more than you would expect of civilised people in a learning environment. I'm sure if there were a genuine reason why a kid couldn't follow the rules then special dispensation would be made. Out of interest, which of the 14 rules do you consider bonkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 There were 236 on the first day, dropping to 115 within four days. But again, I think you are getting drawn into the detail. You argue that kids can't wear the correct socks, can't refrain from smoking, can't stop dropping litter etc. I disagree. Unlike your example of introducing an impossibly complex regulation governing walking speed, these rules are actually quite straight forward and generally no more than you would expect of civilised people in a learning environment. I'm sure if there were a genuine reason why a kid couldn't follow the rules then special dispensation would be made. Out of interest, which of the 14 rules do you consider bonkers? Arggghh! Exactly where did I say kids can't refrain from smoking or dropping litter? Plueeze, do not misquote me! OK, going back to the rules as quoted in the DM, here are the ones I think are bonkers: 1) Kids are punished for wearing the incorrect uniform. While I'm in favour of a general stance on uniform, the minute someone gets a ruler out and starts banging on about how far skirt hemlines are above the knee I fear we are back in the bad old days. Sounds pedantic and uber controlling to me. Excessive makeup is also forbidden. How exactly is this policed? What's excessive to one person might be just right for another - stupid. 2)Outdoor clothing worn indoors. Well, what do they do with their coats etc then? And what if it's cold in the corridors? What harm is the outdoor clothing doing anyway? 3)Eating in undesignated areas. If they've got to hurry between classes what's wrong with eating on the way? Hungry kids can't learn. 4) Ban on visible earphones. What the hell? So, they're alright as long as you can't see them Why not just say ban on earphones? At least that would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 You're right, it's very pedantic. It's pedantic pedagogal pedal pediophobia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 There were 236 on the first day, dropping to 115 within four days. But again, I think you are getting drawn into the detail. You argue that kids can't wear the correct socks, can't refrain from smoking, can't stop dropping litter etc. I disagree. Unlike your example of introducing an impossibly complex regulation governing walking speed, these rules are actually quite straight forward and generally no more than you would expect of civilised people in a learning environment. I'm sure if there were a genuine reason why a kid couldn't follow the rules then special dispensation would be made. Out of interest, which of the 14 rules do you consider bonkers? All of them are, obviously. The lesson they teach is that arbitary rules are to be followed. This isn't a lesson anyone should ever learn. I suggest that they make control groups and see if there is a difference in performance with or without matching socks on, with or without going to school and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 If you really believe that you have every right to teach your kids yourself. Home Schooling I wonder how many religious nutcase groups are using these provisions as a cover to fill their offspring's heads up with extremist poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I suggest that they make control groups and see if there is a difference in performance with or without matching socks on, with or without going to school and so forth. I agree. It would be very interesting to see whether schools where discipline is enforced perform better than those where it is not. It would then be far more interesting to see whether, given the option, parents would choose to send their kids to the type which performed best even if it conflicted with their own individual beliefs on education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I wonder how many religious nutcase groups are using these provisions as a cover to fill their offspring's heads up with extremist poison. No idea. I imagine religion to be an individual or communal practice as opposed to a family affair. Unless an entire religious community decided to withdraw from the system and teach intolerance I can't imagine there ever being a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I agree. It would be very interesting to see whether schools where discipline is enforced perform better than those where it is not. It would then be far more interesting to see whether, given the option, parents would choose to send their kids to the type which performed best even if it conflicted with their own individual beliefs on education. It's not up to the parents (or shouldn't be) it's the children that go. For some reason we have an attitude that says "small = no rights." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 ...mobile phones should not be allowed in classrooms....the schools I know that don't allow it have better discipline thus better behaved kids....kids respect justified and followed through discipline, it shows you care....let them do as they please and run wild, shows no one cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 It's not up to the parents (or shouldn't be) it's the children that go. For some reason we have an attitude that says "small = no rights." Should children be allowed to play with blenders and chainsaws if they wish? At what point can you force an education/restriction on a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Should children be allowed to play with blenders and chainsaws if they wish? At what point can you force an education/restriction on a child? When direct harm will result, and only minimal to remove that harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 When direct harm will result, and only minimal to remove that harm. So no education at all (unless a child asks to sit down and learn addition / spelling etc)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 So no education at all (unless a child asks to sit down and learn addition / spelling etc)? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Exactly. Lots of individual parenting styles emerging on this thread. Perhaps we should just have lots of different schools where you pick the one that best matches the wishes of both parent and child. Be a bit costly though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Lots of individual parenting styles emerging on this thread. Perhaps we should just have lots of different schools where you pick the one that best matches the wishes of both parent and child. Be a bit costly though. A free market in learning! Whatever next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 A free market in learning! Whatever next? That's a bit unfair.. it does exist at present in the form of private and home schooling. But no, you can't have your tax money back.. we stole it fair and square Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 That's a bit unfair.. it does exist at present in the form of private and home schooling. But no, you can't have your tax money back.. we stole it fair and square Schooling is learning now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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