awaytogo Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13000171 The minimum wage is up by 2.5%, I can see good points and bad points what are your views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Minimum wage is a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13000171 The minimum wage is up by 2.5%, I can see good points and bad points what are your views? Rather than the conversation explode as usual I wonder if there's anyone who supports the minimum wage but not this increase or who supports it but wanted a decrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 So a real wages cut of c. 3% for the de facto lowest paid. Sounds like a plan. If you're one of The Bullingdon Boys or their mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Minimum wage is a bad thing. I saw it miles off when it was introduced. People would have been better off had it not have hone ahead. Another feeder for HPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13000171 The minimum wage is up by 2.5%, I can see good points and bad points what are your views? The minimum wage should be high enough that a single person on it full time should be able to live independently of benefits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Bad if you're on above minimum wage, and if you get less than 2.5% payrise. I got 1.3% last year. Where's the motivation to work harder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadoube Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Good thing. Business that can only survive by lobbying to lower the minimum wage are clearly not competitive. The managers who know they can only earn their bonus if govt gives them a handout of lower minimum wage are not competent to grow the business So much better to increase minimum wage, let the dross fall by the wayside and wait for their more efficient competitors take up the slack. Reducing minimum wage helps businesses that ought to die to linger on a bit longer. Edited April 7, 2011 by Jadoube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Minimum wage is an irrelavence, what you can buy with it is relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopatito Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Good thing. Though I'm not sure the rate should be the same in Surrey as it is in Durham, when living (especially housing) costs are so different. My lack of wage increases in the last four years mean I'm scheduled to be earning minimum wage in about fifteen years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver surfer Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Not much point discussing minimum wage in isolation, it's inexorably connected with taxation, housing costs, benefits, exchange rates, blah, blah, blah. The fact that it exists says something's going wrong somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If we had a citizens income or negative income tax, the need for and logic behind the minimum wage, would disappear. Until that happens, I guess a minimum wage is a good thing. But I think that the citizens income would be a great step forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If we had a citizens income or negative income tax, the need for and logic behind the minimum wage, would disappear. +1 Best way to get rid of NMW, is make it irrelevant. Unfortunately governments of both red and blue persuasion are intent on making living costs higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Good thing. Business that can only survive by lobbying to lower the minimum wage are clearly not competitive. The managers who know they can only earn their bonus if govt gives them a handout of lower minimum wage are not competent to grow the business So much better to increase minimum wage, let the dross fall by the wayside and wait for their more efficient competitors take up the slack. Reducing minimum wage helps businesses that ought to die to linger on a bit longer. Who are you to decide what should come and go? Customers decide whether a business is viable or not, not you individually. It's clearly not dross if it's in business. It's not just businesses that are lobbying for lower minimum wage, I don't employ any staff yet I think it's a bad thing. Question I've always asked: The Labour government, who introduced NMW here, knew themselves of the flaws of the NMW so they made exemptions for it for apprentices. What about people that are the equivalent of apprentices in all but name? What about the people that are never more valuable than apprentices? Like others have said, if the government got a grip on living costs then low wages matter a lot less. Edited April 7, 2011 by cica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_James Toney_* Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 The minimum wage should be high enough that a single person on it full time should be able to live independently of benefits... i agree, nowadays i think it would have to be 20,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1AK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Business that can only survive by lobbying to lower the minimum wage are clearly not competitive. The managers who know they can only earn their bonus if govt gives them a handout of lower minimum wage are not competent to grow the business So much better to increase minimum wage, let the dross fall by the wayside and wait for their more efficient competitors take up the slack. Reducing minimum wage helps businesses that ought to die to linger on a bit longer. Reducing the minimum wage encourages the creation of jobs that don't justify better pay. It has very little to do with competition between better and worse competitors. In an economy with a large number of employed people, making more people unemployed (which is what happens when companies can't continue) should be avoided unless the reason is extremely strong. The minimum wage has succeeded in doing two things in the UK: Drive low skilled manufactoring work out of the UK Increase the wages of low skilled workers in geographically fixed roles (store staff etc). The minimum wage ensures that someone stacking shelves in a supermarket is paid better, it also puts more pressure on the them to employ fewer staff. It might have been cost effective for Tesco to employ an extra 5-6 check out staff per store, rather than install self-service checkouts if the wage they had to pay was slightly lower. I'm not entirely pro- or anti-minimum wage, and I find it amusing to watch people debate the issue as though either option has no benefits or negatives attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1AK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 i agree, nowadays i think it would have to be 20,000 Then you'd be wrong. Beyond that, you'd also cause massive damage to the economy and decimate job numbers, and if that sounds hyperbolic it is only because you haven't fully thought through the consequences. I work for a company employing ~5,000 employees. Many are 'unskilled' and the pay is near or at minimum wage. I've seen sites close, and staff be laid off because it's still more cost effective to automate some tasks. If you increases the minimum wage to £20,000pa equivalent then you'd see an immediate increase of ~25% on the staple food product we produce, and investment in further automation to drop ~1000-1500 roles over the next 2-4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Minimum wages are a good thing. The minimum wage should be sufficient not to warrant the payment of ANY other benefits. Either requires a good dose of protectionism or needs to be implemented on a global baisis and denominated in something like gold. ..minimum wage is only a good thing if it pays a minimum living wage.....below sustenance minimum wage that requires beneficial top ups is bad, because it sets the price that others follow and use as a justification as to why they pay no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_James Toney_* Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Then you'd be wrong. Beyond that, you'd also cause massive damage to the economy and decimate job numbers, and if that sounds hyperbolic it is only because you haven't fully thought through the consequences. I work for a company employing ~5,000 employees. Many are 'unskilled' and the pay is near or at minimum wage. I've seen sites close, and staff be laid off because it's still more cost effective to automate some tasks. If you increases the minimum wage to £20,000pa equivalent then you'd see an immediate increase of ~25% on the staple food product we produce, and investment in further automation to drop ~1000-1500 roles over the next 2-4 years. i know i have not thought it through, i was meaning more the fact with the price of everything and how things are at the moment, rents and so, 20k is not a great deal to live off, i do know many people not even on this amount too, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongeh Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Why not make the minimum wage a straight £100 an hour, then nobody would be poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Then you'd be wrong. Beyond that, you'd also cause massive damage to the economy and decimate job numbers, and if that sounds hyperbolic it is only because you haven't fully thought through the consequences. I work for a company employing ~5,000 employees. Many are 'unskilled' and the pay is near or at minimum wage. I've seen sites close, and staff be laid off because it's still more cost effective to automate some tasks. If you increases the minimum wage to £20,000pa equivalent then you'd see an immediate increase of ~25% on the staple food product we produce, and investment in further automation to drop ~1000-1500 roles over the next 2-4 years. ....so what you are saying is employers should be subsidised by tax payers for creating employment for a non-viable business....the business owners are themselves then being paid indirectly by the tax payers or should we say being paid for from government debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Not much point discussing minimum wage in isolation, it's inexorably connected with taxation, housing costs, benefits, exchange rates, blah, blah, blah. The fact that it exists says something's going wrong somewhere else. Spot on. Minimum wage is not a good thing but its the best patch that the political elites find acceptable for other problems. If workers had price setting power in the employment market place then there would be no need for it. Workers would be able to demand a living wage - and get it. Instead we have a minimum wage with the government topping up their incomes and thus subsidising minimum wage paying employers. This all ties into the global labour surplus, increasing mechanization, outsourcing, migrant workers, etc, etc. For which there is no simple easy solution that the political elites could get the majority of the population to accept, and its also doubtful the elites would want any such solution themselves. As for the 2.5% increase in the minimum wage it is a laughable derisory increase as have been all increases over the past decade. The inflation felt by the poor is mostly in the basics, food, heating, electricity, water, council tax, housing, etc. And the inflation in these has been way beyond the rate of increase of the minimum wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 As for the 2.5% increase in the minimum wage it is a laughable derisory increase as have been all increases over the past decade. The inflation felt by the poor is mostly in the basics, food, heating, electricity, water, council tax, housing, etc. And the inflation in these has been way beyond the rate of increase of the minimum wage. ...poor in my mind....one rule for one member of society another rule for another.... index linked pensions get rpi increase and they are not even working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 This all ties into the global labour surplus, increasing mechanization... What global labour surplus? Prices take care of surplus and shortage. Technology has made the poorest people a lot richer in recent history. It's certainly not technology that's to blame for the current recession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have mixed feelings about this. While I supported the minimum wage introduction, now I feel it is too much of a burden on a struggling private sector. Some jobs aren't worth £6ph. 2.5% increase is more than most people are getting, at a time when a lot of us are fearing for our jobs, and increasing the wage bill is only going to result in more redundancies. I'd like to see the NMW frozen for 12 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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