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Minimum Wage Up 2.5%

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So a real wages cut of c. 3% for the de facto lowest paid.

Sounds like a plan. If you're one of The Bullingdon Boys or their mates.

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Bad if you're on above minimum wage, and if you get less than 2.5% payrise. I got 1.3% last year. Where's the motivation to work harder?

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Good thing.

Business that can only survive by lobbying to lower the minimum wage are clearly not competitive. The managers who know they can only earn their bonus if govt gives them a handout of lower minimum wage are not competent to grow the business

So much better to increase minimum wage, let the dross fall by the wayside and wait for their more efficient competitors take up the slack. Reducing minimum wage helps businesses that ought to die to linger on a bit longer.

Edited by Jadoube

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Good thing. Though I'm not sure the rate should be the same in Surrey as it is in Durham, when living (especially housing) costs are so different. My lack of wage increases in the last four years mean I'm scheduled to be earning minimum wage in about fifteen years time :(

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Not much point discussing minimum wage in isolation, it's inexorably connected with taxation, housing costs, benefits, exchange rates, blah, blah, blah. The fact that it exists says something's going wrong somewhere else.

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If we had a citizens income or negative income tax, the need for and logic behind the minimum wage, would disappear.

Until that happens, I guess a minimum wage is a good thing.

But I think that the citizens income would be a great step forwards.

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If we had a citizens income or negative income tax, the need for and logic behind the minimum wage, would disappear.

+1

Best way to get rid of NMW, is make it irrelevant. Unfortunately governments of both red and blue persuasion are intent on making living costs higher.

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Good thing.

Business that can only survive by lobbying to lower the minimum wage are clearly not competitive. The managers who know they can only earn their bonus if govt gives them a handout of lower minimum wage are not competent to grow the business

So much better to increase minimum wage, let the dross fall by the wayside and wait for their more efficient competitors take up the slack. Reducing minimum wage helps businesses that ought to die to linger on a bit longer.

Who are you to decide what should come and go? Customers decide whether a business is viable or not, not you individually. It's clearly not dross if it's in business.

It's not just businesses that are lobbying for lower minimum wage, I don't employ any staff yet I think it's a bad thing.

Question I've always asked: The Labour government, who introduced NMW here, knew themselves of the flaws of the NMW so they made exemptions for it for apprentices. What about people that are the equivalent of apprentices in all but name? What about the people that are never more valuable than apprentices?

Like others have said, if the government got a grip on living costs then low wages matter a lot less.

Edited by cica

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Business that can only survive by lobbying to lower the minimum wage are clearly not competitive. The managers who know they can only earn their bonus if govt gives them a handout of lower minimum wage are not competent to grow the business

So much better to increase minimum wage, let the dross fall by the wayside and wait for their more efficient competitors take up the slack. Reducing minimum wage helps businesses that ought to die to linger on a bit longer.

Reducing the minimum wage encourages the creation of jobs that don't justify better pay. It has very little to do with competition between better and worse competitors. In an economy with a large number of employed people, making more people unemployed (which is what happens when companies can't continue) should be avoided unless the reason is extremely strong.

The minimum wage has succeeded in doing two things in the UK:

  1. Drive low skilled manufactoring work out of the UK

  2. Increase the wages of low skilled workers in geographically fixed roles (store staff etc).

The minimum wage ensures that someone stacking shelves in a supermarket is paid better, it also puts more pressure on the them to employ fewer staff. It might have been cost effective for Tesco to employ an extra 5-6 check out staff per store, rather than install self-service checkouts if the wage they had to pay was slightly lower.

I'm not entirely pro- or anti-minimum wage, and I find it amusing to watch people debate the issue as though either option has no benefits or negatives attached.

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i agree, nowadays i think it would have to be 20,000

Then you'd be wrong. Beyond that, you'd also cause massive damage to the economy and decimate job numbers, and if that sounds hyperbolic it is only because you haven't fully thought through the consequences. I work for a company employing ~5,000 employees. Many are 'unskilled' and the pay is near or at minimum wage. I've seen sites close, and staff be laid off because it's still more cost effective to automate some tasks. If you increases the minimum wage to £20,000pa equivalent then you'd see an immediate increase of ~25% on the staple food product we produce, and investment in further automation to drop ~1000-1500 roles over the next 2-4 years.

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Minimum wages are a good thing. The minimum wage should be sufficient not to warrant the payment of ANY other benefits.

Either requires a good dose of protectionism or needs to be implemented on a global baisis and denominated in something like gold.

..minimum wage is only a good thing if it pays a minimum living wage.....below sustenance minimum wage that requires beneficial top ups is bad, because it sets the price that others follow and use as a justification as to why they pay no more. ;)

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Then you'd be wrong. Beyond that, you'd also cause massive damage to the economy and decimate job numbers, and if that sounds hyperbolic it is only because you haven't fully thought through the consequences. I work for a company employing ~5,000 employees. Many are 'unskilled' and the pay is near or at minimum wage. I've seen sites close, and staff be laid off because it's still more cost effective to automate some tasks. If you increases the minimum wage to £20,000pa equivalent then you'd see an immediate increase of ~25% on the staple food product we produce, and investment in further automation to drop ~1000-1500 roles over the next 2-4 years.

i know i have not thought it through, i was meaning more the fact with the price of everything and how things are at the moment, rents and so, 20k is not a great deal to live off, i do know many people not even on this amount too,

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Then you'd be wrong. Beyond that, you'd also cause massive damage to the economy and decimate job numbers, and if that sounds hyperbolic it is only because you haven't fully thought through the consequences. I work for a company employing ~5,000 employees. Many are 'unskilled' and the pay is near or at minimum wage. I've seen sites close, and staff be laid off because it's still more cost effective to automate some tasks. If you increases the minimum wage to £20,000pa equivalent then you'd see an immediate increase of ~25% on the staple food product we produce, and investment in further automation to drop ~1000-1500 roles over the next 2-4 years.

....so what you are saying is employers should be subsidised by tax payers for creating employment for a non-viable business....the business owners are themselves then being paid indirectly by the tax payers or should we say being paid for from government debt.

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Not much point discussing minimum wage in isolation, it's inexorably connected with taxation, housing costs, benefits, exchange rates, blah, blah, blah. The fact that it exists says something's going wrong somewhere else.

Spot on. Minimum wage is not a good thing but its the best patch that the political elites find acceptable for other problems. If workers had price setting power in the employment market place then there would be no need for it. Workers would be able to demand a living wage - and get it.

Instead we have a minimum wage with the government topping up their incomes and thus subsidising minimum wage paying employers. This all ties into the global labour surplus, increasing mechanization, outsourcing, migrant workers, etc, etc. For which there is no simple easy solution that the political elites could get the majority of the population to accept, and its also doubtful the elites would want any such solution themselves.

As for the 2.5% increase in the minimum wage it is a laughable derisory increase as have been all increases over the past decade. The inflation felt by the poor is mostly in the basics, food, heating, electricity, water, council tax, housing, etc. And the inflation in these has been way beyond the rate of increase of the minimum wage.

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As for the 2.5% increase in the minimum wage it is a laughable derisory increase as have been all increases over the past decade. The inflation felt by the poor is mostly in the basics, food, heating, electricity, water, council tax, housing, etc. And the inflation in these has been way beyond the rate of increase of the minimum wage.

...poor in my mind....one rule for one member of society another rule for another.... index linked pensions get rpi increase and they are not even working. :o

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This all ties into the global labour surplus, increasing mechanization...

What global labour surplus? Prices take care of surplus and shortage. Technology has made the poorest people a lot richer in recent history. It's certainly not technology that's to blame for the current recession.

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I have mixed feelings about this. While I supported the minimum wage introduction, now I feel it is too much of a burden on a struggling private sector. Some jobs aren't worth £6ph. 2.5% increase is more than most people are getting, at a time when a lot of us are fearing for our jobs, and increasing the wage bill is only going to result in more redundancies. I'd like to see the NMW frozen for 12 months.

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  • 277 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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