People Have To Pay For Their Own Kids - Shocker

[longtomsilver]

It's not legal for classes to be run by TA's (you know they're low-grade do you?) They're illegal or you're bullshitting - I know where my money is.

My child is only 22months old so this info has been passed on by a concerned mother (happens to be a primary school teacher herself) who's daughter does attend this school. Don't shoot the messenger

[wherebee]

Re angry right-wing whining:

The alternative to providing a guaranteed minimum standard of living for children is letting children suffer. No matter what you think of their parents, our society has a duty to look out for its weakest members, and even if you don't believe that I don't think anybody wants to see hungry kids taken into care, or dying, for the sake of a few quid per taxpayer per year. If you do want that, we can fight about it.

Re this left wing argument, the alternative to NOT providing a guarenteed minimum standard of living for children is letting children and adults suffer through the knock on effects - more unwanted, badly parented children, less stable family units, more crime, etc etc etc etc.

It's hard to see kids suffer NOW. But all the current policies do is make more adult and children suffer over a longer time period - you just dont have the heartrending pictures with a clear A-B link. The links are A-B-C-D and most people are too stupid to join the dots (or letters).

Personally, I'd say that you get child benefit for the first child (and at a higher level) but only if you and your partner are sterilized so that there are no more produced. Make it a matter of choice. No one has to have a baby in the 21st century if they do not want to.

(Sarah Palin's daughter excepted, of course)

Edited April 10, 2011 by wherebee

[winkie]

Anyone earning minimum wage has enough money to feed themselves and someone else. I know I have done it.

.....having good parents is worth more than £15k, having good parents and access to housing and a good education is worth far more......it doesn't matter what you give people, it is how they spend it that counts.

[guitarman001]

My sister just had a kid. She's unemployed, will probably never work. Her boyfriend's a chef. She got a council house a week after she had her kid, it was so easy!

[winkie]

My sister just had a kid. She's unemployed, will probably never work. Her boyfriend's a chef. She got a council house a week after she had her kid, it was so easy!

Why do you think she will never work?....kids grow up fast, child benefits and child tax benefits do not continue forever....she might find she will have a unexpected wake-up call further along down the line.

Edit: only because I like the song.

Edited April 10, 2011 by winkie

[porca misèria]

Good grief! Why pay £200 for something new you can get almost new for £15?

No harm in that.

Provided you're not also whinging about lack of money, or expecting bailouts, or such things.

[LJAR]

.....having good parents is worth more than £15k, having good parents and access to housing and a good education is worth far more......it doesn't matter what you give people, it is how they spend it that counts.

very true, the quality of parenting and upbringing is not about the material possessions that you have.

People raise children and do it well on much less money than "the poor" have in this country. If they have enough to eat they are not suffering.

(and they will have enough here if you can be bothered to work - and there is work if you can be bothered to find it)

[gf3]

You're assuming poor parents are bad parents, which pretty clearly false.

No I think poor parents are the best parents which is a pretty good reason not to give them any money

[guitarman001]

Why do you think she will never work?....kids grow up fast, child benefits and child tax benefits do not continue forever....she might find she will have a unexpected wake-up call further along down the line.

Hope she does... she's such a lazy, sponging ****.

[boynamedsue]

Hope she does... she's such a lazy, sponging ****.

20th December 2020

"Don't worry kids, uncle D1ckhead isn't coming for xmas this year, he'll be sitting at home being a miserable b@stard, all alone."

[Timak]

Interesting thread - we've had a baby quite recently and have been pleasantly surprised so far by how little it has actually cost.

We aren't poor, and I wouldn't say we are stingy, but both my wife and I have a huge aversion to spending money wastefully.

As such we've got a lot of stuff from Freecycle,Gumtree, nearly new sales, clothes swaps and hand-me-downs from friends and family. I reckon it would be entirely possible to clothe a child from birth to 5 years old for less than £200. And if when they've outgrown the clothes you put them back into the swapping system to complete the circle.

Of course we've bought a few bits and pieces ourselves such as the travel system and cot+mattress but other than those items everything has been borrowed or gifted to us.

[guitarman001]

20th December 2020

"Don't worry kids, uncle D1ckhead isn't coming for xmas this year, he'll be sitting at home being a miserable b@stard, all alone."

If you're being nasty then go scr@w yourself. I hate when people make rash assumptions like because you have an alternative view you are a miser and lonely. Ridiculous!

If you weren't being nasty - have a nice day!

[porca misèria]

Interesting thread - we've had a baby quite recently and have been pleasantly surprised so far by how little it has actually cost.

We aren't poor, and I wouldn't say we are stingy, but both my wife and I have a huge aversion to spending money wastefully.

As such we've got a lot of stuff from Freecycle,Gumtree, nearly new sales,

I expect your third line there is a much more important reason than your earnings, or even child benefit and tax credits, why you're not poor!

[Lagarde's Drift]

I expect your third line there is a much more important reason than your earnings, or even child benefit and tax credits, why you're not poor!

Yes, rather than maximising income, first thing is to minimise outgoing. When moving into this unfurnished house, we spent a grand total of £150 on furniture, the vast majority coming free from friends / family / charity shops, with a few bits from Freecycle, e.g. a large CRT TV, dinner tablet chairs, brooms and stuff. Even cycling maps.

I know people doing the same who spunked £200 on a brand-new DFS sofa set alone, much less everything else. Of course, they also have mortgages, and are a lot poorer than we are. But they don't realise it yet.

Hence the comments about prams etc.

[longtomsilver]

Yes, rather than maximising income, first thing is to minimise outgoing. When moving into this unfurnished house, we spent a grand total of £150 on furniture, the vast majority coming free from friends / family / charity shops, with a few bits from Freecycle, e.g. a large CRT TV, dinner tablet chairs, brooms and stuff. Even cycling maps.

I know people doing the same who spunked £200 on a brand-new DFS sofa set alone, much less everything else. Of course, they also have mortgages, and are a lot poorer than we are. But they don't realise it yet.

Hence the comments about prams etc.

I've had UPS drop off our 'Travel System' in two huge boxes this morning. It's Teutonia granted it is well made but probably cost us the best part of a grand (I daren't ask). Anyway it looks almost as cumbersome as the Graco one we still have lying around somewhere AND DIDN'T USE. So from experience of our first child we'll be using the cheapo o'baby pram and little-lite backpack carrier.

We could have chipped away another 1% off our mortgage, most annoyed - grhhh

[Lagarde's Drift]

I've had UPS drop off our 'Travel System' in two huge boxes this morning. It's Teutonia granted it is well made but probably cost us the best part of a grand (I daren't ask). Anyway it looks almost as cumbersome as the Graco one we still have lying around somewhere AND DIDN'T USE. So from experience of our first child we'll be using the cheapo o'baby pram and little-lite backpack carrier.

We could have chipped away another 1% off our mortgage, most annoyed - grhhh

I'll give you £50 for it. That's 0.05% off your mortgage.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

I've had UPS drop off our 'Travel System' in two huge boxes this morning. It's Teutonia granted it is well made but probably cost us the best part of a grand (I daren't ask). Anyway it looks almost as cumbersome as the Graco one we still have lying around somewhere AND DIDN'T USE. So from experience of our first child we'll be using the cheapo o'baby pram and little-lite backpack carrier.

We could have chipped away another 1% off our mortgage, most annoyed - grhhh

Have you considered selling the nipper, the wife might be upset to begin with but she'll come round eventually once you explain how much profit and savings youll make in black and white

Edited April 11, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka

[Timak]

I expect your third line there is a much more important reason than your earnings, or even child benefit and tax credits, why you're not poor!

My favourite saying is "a penny saved is 1.3-1.5 pennies earned"

I'm particularly like to frighten/annoy people by calculating costs in pre-tax terms so if someone is spending £5k on a train season ticket I point out it is really £7.5k of their wages.

[longtomsilver]

I'll give you £50 for it. That's 0.05% off your mortgage.

that might just stretch to the winter foot muff even I don't have one of those!

[longtomsilver]

Have you considered selling the nipper, the wife might be upset to begin with but she'll come round eventually once you explain how much profit and savings youll make in black and white

the children are a part of our retirement plan, long term thinking we'll reap the dividends

[winkie]

the children are a part of our retirement plan, long term thinking we'll reap the dividends

....apart from child minding costs if you have to pay for them young children cost very little, unless you choose to pay for a private education, that only a few can afford......they get more costly as they get older, the whole object is to get to a point where they are self supporting or even better making a profit for themselves, else they may end up costing more just at the time when the child benefit payments stop...the time when you need the money the most.

[longtomsilver]

... self supporting or even better making a profit for themselves, else they may end up costing more just at the time when the child benefit payments stop...the time when you need the money the most.

I am the child care so we save there.

The child benefit payment stops for us in 2013 - my daughter will be 4 years old. Chimney sweep?

[Rare Bear]

I am the child care so we save there.

The child benefit payment stops for us in 2013 - my daughter will be 4 years old. Chimney sweep?

No future for chimney sweeps these days with all this nonsense about smokeless fuel.

[winkie]

I am the child care so we save there.

The child benefit payment stops for us in 2013 - my daughter will be 4 years old. Chimney sweep?

....the best child care is a good parent or even grandparent child care up to school age....so if a salary lost, could be costly, but that is where planning comes into being if that is your thing.....it was not that long ago when child benefit did not exist, but people had more than two children, five or more was quite common...how could they have done it and we now struggle?....is it we expect more, want more or demand more?

[longtomsilver]

No future for chimney sweeps these days with all this nonsense about smokeless fuel.

I'll be making our fireplace serviceable this year, one advantage of living out in the sticks. The futures well and truly set back in the past now