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Seizing The Wealth For All

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Imagine you were born in a large tribe in South America pre-conquest. Unfortunatley you were born in a poor family and your family had to rent the hut you lived in. All the land your tribe lived on was already owned by someone.

You reach adulthood and want to catch fish for you and your family. Unfortunately before you are allowed to fish you need a certificate in fishing which takes 2 years and you have to take out a long term loan to get it. Then when you are finally permitted to fish you realize a small group of people hold the licenses for the allotted annual fish catch. At most one is willing to hire you on at low pay to fish. On the rare time one of the allotment licenses comes up for sale it costs more than a lifetime income for you. Btw you still have to make rent on your hut, which just went up.

Now you are approached by a group that wants to expropriate all the land titles and licenses and hold the wealth in common. Do you..

A) Decide to join with them as your only chance to break out from having about 90% of the fruits of your labour taken by others.

B) Lecture them on how the holders of the titles and licenses or their ancestors legitametly earned them in a free and fair market, and how theft is morally wrong.

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Imagine you were born in a large tribe in South America pre-conquest. Unfortunatley you were born in a poor family and your family had to rent the hut you lived in. All the land your tribe lived on was already owned by someone.

You reach adulthood and want to catch fish for you and your family. Unfortunately before you are allowed to fish you need a certificate in fishing which takes 2 years and you have to take out a long term loan to get it. Then when you are finally permitted to fish you realize a small group of people hold the licenses for the allotted annual fish catch. At most one is willing to hire you on at low pay to fish. On the rare time one of the allotment licenses comes up for sale it costs more than a lifetime income for you. Btw you still have to make rent on your hut, which just went up.

Now you are approached by a group that wants to expropriate all the land titles and licenses and hold the wealth in common. Do you..

A) Decide to join with them as your only chance to break out from having about 90% of the fruits of your labour taken by others.

B) Lecture them on how the holders of the titles and licenses or their ancestors legitametly earned them in a free and fair market, and how theft is morally wrong.

A is losing the last 10% of your stuff.

B is retarded.

Why have you only offered two options? There are millions.

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c) Imagine whilst you were contemplating your decision, another group approached you and offered you money for free in return for living a gutter-al life and breeding like rabbits.

d) Start a riot

e) Start a war

f) Go Keyzer Soze / Rambo

Just a few of many many other possibilities.

g) Ask your parents for a fishing-licence deposit

h) Emigrate to the UK where life is better

i) Become a vegetarian

etc etc etc

Edited by Cash with Nowhere to Go

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A is losing the last 10% of your stuff.

B is retarded.

Why have you only offered two options? There are millions.

Go on, list a few, and the consequences of taking them.

I imagine pitchforks and gaol might be involved.

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Imagine you were born in a large tribe in South America pre-conquest. Unfortunatley you were born in a poor family and your family had to rent the hut you lived in. All the land your tribe lived on was already owned by someone.

You reach adulthood and want to catch fish for you and your family. Unfortunately before you are allowed to fish you need a certificate in fishing which takes 2 years and you have to take out a long term loan to get it. Then when you are finally permitted to fish you realize a small group of people hold the licenses for the allotted annual fish catch. At most one is willing to hire you on at low pay to fish. On the rare time one of the allotment licenses comes up for sale it costs more than a lifetime income for you. Btw you still have to make rent on your hut, which just went up.

Now you are approached by a group that wants to expropriate all the land titles and licenses and hold the wealth in common. Do you..

A) Decide to join with them as your only chance to break out from having about 90% of the fruits of your labour taken by others.

B) Lecture them on how the holders of the titles and licenses or their ancestors legitametly earned them in a free and fair market, and how theft is morally wrong.

What if you had been convinced that if you work hard and speculate wildly you too could be a title holder?

Even though there is no chance whatsoever. Its the south American dream innit.

I think people will take a lot of beating with the big stick of power if you convince them they have the chance to beat someone else with it in the future.

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I think people will take a lot of beating with the big stick of power if you convince them they have the chance to beat someone else with it in the future.

This neatly encapsulates the core social dynamic of the United states of america, and to lesser degree it's clones like us.

The real value of the american dream is not that it is apirational but that it legitimises the income inequality that is now endemic and accelerating.

What could go wrong is if the sheeple wake up to the fact that the losers at the table are themselves, rather than some other nebulous grouping- that's when the hamptons potentially goes up in flames.

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This neatly encapsulates the core social dynamic of the United states of america, and to lesser degree it's clones like us.

The real value of the american dream is not that it is apirational but that it legitimises the income inequality that is now endemic and accelerating.

What could go wrong is if the sheeple wake up to the fact that the losers at the table are themselves, rather than some other nebulous grouping- that's when the hamptons potentially goes up in flames.

Yes, they thought it was a dream then they woke up to find it was a nightmare.

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Is this meant to be subtle and insightful?

I kind of spotted some stuff in there about student fees and land rights. Did it get them right?

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I understand the increased concentration of wealth has led to gated communities within gated communities.

:lol:

The interesting thing about gated communities is that they seem to be a response not so much to historical events but to a diffuse anxiety concerning possible future ones.

It's almost as if those living there intuitively grasp the fact that the increasing wealth gap between themselves and the majority of their fellow citizens is dangerous- so they mount this pre emptive strike against the day that danger crystallizes - failing to grasp the fact that they present an obvious and highly visible target to the great unwashed who will know exactly where to find them should the need arise.

Did gated communities of this sort exist in the America of the 50's? I suspect not so much. Back then it would not have seemed necessary- back then the rich felt safer.

Edited by wonderpup

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Imagine you were born in a large tribe in South America pre-conquest. Unfortunatley you were born in a poor family and your family had to rent the hut you lived in. All the land your tribe lived on was already owned by someone.

True. But you can fit a lot more people into a (rented) house than it was designed for. Look at the immigrants 8-to a room.

You reach adulthood and want to catch fish for you and your family. Unfortunately before you are allowed to fish you need a certificate in fishing which takes 2 years and you have to take out a long term loan to get it.

But the only reason you need to have a degree to get a good job at the moment is because degrees are free to everyone, paid for by the tax payer.

Now that it costs a lot to get one, fewer people will get a degree, and it will go back to the old system where most skilled jobs needed simple cheaper vocational qualifications.

Then when you are finally permitted to fish you realize a small group of people hold the licenses for the allotted annual fish catch.

A government licence I assume?

Simple solution: Get rid of the need for licences, and make it a free-for-all.

At most one is willing to hire you on at low pay to fish.

But with the money you make from that work you can get trained up and do work that needs more skills and pays better.

On the rare time one of the allotment licenses comes up for sale it costs more than a lifetime income for you. Btw you still have to make rent on your hut, which just went up.

Again, abolish the government-granted licences.

Now you are approached by a group that wants to expropriate all the land titles and licenses and hold the wealth in common. Do you..

A) Decide to join with them as your only chance to break out from having about 90% of the fruits of your labour taken by others.

B) Lecture them on how the holders of the titles and licenses or their ancestors legitametly earned them in a free and fair market, and how theft is morally wrong.

C) Don't have anything to do with that group!

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. Do you..

A) Decide to join with them as your only chance to break out from having about 90% of the fruits of your labour taken by others.

B) Lecture them on how the holders of the titles and licenses or their ancestors legitametly earned them in a free and fair market, and how theft is morally wrong.

Good Dilemna.

Being a person who despises parasitic so called 'elites' controlling more wealth than any normal person could possibly need in ten thousand lifetimes, slightly less than i despise collectivised dogmatic mass psychology, I would shit my pants, say my prayers to the cow god, asking for him to give me the instincts to lead me out of the pending unavoidable $hit-fest that is on the cards, be it a elite sponsered decimation of the troublesome masses or a prison superstate controlled by whatever psycopathic nutter best surfed the waves of mass psychology and landed the job as F├╝hrer, Chairman, Lord of the Universe, etc.

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I understand the increased concentration of wealth has led to gated communities within gated communities.

Erm - register gets lost on the internet sometimes and there isn't much room left in this world for satire...

So, are you serious?

Edited to add: OMG after some googling, it appears you were being serious!!! :blink:

Edited by Tiger Woods?

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True. But you can fit a lot more people into a (rented) house than it was designed for. Look at the immigrants 8-to a room.

But the only reason you need to have a degree to get a good job at the moment is because degrees are free to everyone, paid for by the tax payer.

Now that it costs a lot to get one, fewer people will get a degree, and it will go back to the old system where most skilled jobs needed simple cheaper vocational qualifications.

Hopefully that is true, but it might not be. Look now universities are drastically raising fees, yet I don't see any movement to lower the entry requirements for profesions.

A government licence I assume?

Simple solution: Get rid of the need for licences, and make it a free-for-all.

I agree with this, for example I think anyone should be allowed to open a pharmacy and sell whatever drugs they want. However the powers that be will fight that all the way.

A harder problem is the fishing example. When its a free for all, the fish populations are decimated so it requires imposed limits and allotments. Who gets the allotments is the key question.

But with the money you make from that work you can get trained up and do work that needs more skills and pays better.

Not neccessarily there are many roadblocks for attaining professional certifications.

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What if you had been convinced that if you work hard and speculate wildly you too could be a title holder?

Even though there is no chance whatsoever. Its the south American dream innit.

I think people will take a lot of beating with the big stick of power if you convince them they have the chance to beat someone else with it in the future.

Now here is truly where the powers that be hold their power. Almost everyone I meet dreams of becoming one of those title holders. To own the fishing allotments and earn a fortune, while other people do the fishing for you. And just enough of the downtrodden masses do make it up to be one of the big shots that the dream stays alive.

I've seen some on this forum step outside the dream. For example some have said they could pursue the BTL path, but they don't want to be a middleman exploiting someone else. So they want to trod a different path.

Lots of people do generous things like donate to charity, donate land for parks, Henry Ford paid more than he had to because he believed it was the right thing to do.

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Imagine you were born in a large tribe in South America pre-conquest. Unfortunatley you were born in a poor family and your family had to rent the hut you lived in. All the land your tribe lived on was already owned by someone.

You reach adulthood and want to catch fish for you and your family. Unfortunately before you are allowed to fish you need a certificate in fishing which takes 2 years and you have to take out a long term loan to get it. Then when you are finally permitted to fish you realize a small group of people hold the licenses for the allotted annual fish catch. At most one is willing to hire you on at low pay to fish. On the rare time one of the allotment licenses comes up for sale it costs more than a lifetime income for you. Btw you still have to make rent on your hut, which just went up.

Now you are approached by a group that wants to expropriate all the land titles and licenses and hold the wealth in common. Do you..

A) Decide to join with them as your only chance to break out from having about 90% of the fruits of your labour taken by others.

B) Lecture them on how the holders of the titles and licenses or their ancestors legitametly earned them in a free and fair market, and how theft is morally wrong.

What happened pre-pre-conquest for all this land to already be owned? I bet it started with (A) or something similar. You seem to be hinting that if you respect property rights, land and wealth can only ever remain in one place. That can only happen by force in various forms which is a separate issue.

Option A) is revolution. The idea of the new common system is unworkable long term (see any communist experiment). In large scale human society you get approximately 40% of the population who will try to live at the expense of the other 60%. If you're smart enough to realise that what is on offer in option A is a false hope, you are left with a political decision and far more immediate concerns like not getting shot in the inevitable unrest. Such a scenario all sounds a bit familiar given recent events. Revolution for freedom? Nice idea, but gee, I wonder if it eventually ends up at that pre-conquest stage again. Option B ) is utterly futile.

In reality you will find if you go for A, the people and ideals you're supporting will eventually turn round and try and screw you in precisely the same manner.

The same answer does not apply to much smaller groups but that is not the world in which we live.

Mind you, this does all appear to be an extremely good argument for inheritance tax.

Edited by Fraccy

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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