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mdman

First Time Buyers Strike!

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What started as a small campaign by land tax lobby group Prosper Australia has grown into a sizeable movement, with more than 5,600 people signing a statement saying: "I undertake not to bid at auction or negotiate by private treaty to buy real estate until prices moderate, just as they have in all the countries we compare ourselves to."

Linky

It's not really sizeable yet. From small acorns...

Maybe an idea the UK FTBuyer market should take on.

Cut the oxygen supply off to the Ponzi scheme draining wealth from most of us

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Linky

It's not really sizeable yet. From small acorns...

Maybe an idea the UK FTBuyer market should take on.

Cut the oxygen supply off to the Ponzi scheme draining wealth from most of us

I can see this really working :

Him : You know, house prices are expensive, and we're part of that strike thingy with all those people we don't know. But that house we wanted, with my 5% pay rise for the new job and with your Dad willing to lend us 10k we can just about afford it.

Her : No darling. We're part of the buyers strike. There's no way we can betray our brothers in arms. It would be terrible to betray the buyers strike. Let's hold off buying until prices become sensible for all of us and not be so selfish.

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Linky

It's not really sizeable yet. From small acorns...

Maybe an idea the UK FTBuyer market should take on.

Cut the oxygen supply off to the Ponzi scheme draining wealth from most of us

See the Facebook Home Buyer's Strike group:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=104936389547036

Not many members yet, but I'm one. Surely, HPC'ers should sign up.

Cheers,

Q

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About as much chance of working as reforming INXS without the bloke who wrote and sang the songs.

The vast majority of Australians I've spoke to since arriving here last year don't think there's anything unsustainable about the price of houses. They also think that China's demand for resources is going to keep Australia from economic harm. Based on that unscientific sample I don't foresee a huge demographic about to sign up to this campaign.

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They also think that China's demand for resources is going to keep Australia from economic harm.

Australia has a looong way to go before economic realities make themselves known.

I noticed the australian government has started dipping its toes into fashionable national debt and accustoming the workers to its new role of debt servitude to prop up Sir Ponzi.

I only hope the nation rejects the programming and allows default to happen when it is required. Australia, with a fair wind, will be right and I trust their "turn" is not in the immediate future.

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I can see this really working :

Him : You know, house prices are expensive, and we're part of that strike thingy with all those people we don't know. But that house we wanted, with my 5% pay rise for the new job and with your Dad willing to lend us 10k we can just about afford it.

Her : No darling. We're part of the buyers strike. There's no way we can betray our brothers in arms. It would be terrible to betray the buyers strike. Let's hold off buying until prices become sensible for all of us and not be so selfish.

Hate to burst your apathetic bubble but you're a long way of the mark, groups such as this serve a number of purposes:

1. They undermine the instinct to conform to social pressures ie the "must get on the ladder" mentality. Social Psych 101 - it only takes a handful of non-conformists to cause people to challenge these norms.

2. They take the hpc message to a much wider audience - much as I love the 'debates' here eg "I think prices will fall 20%"/"well I think they'll fall 25%" etc etc, they don't really do much to affect the general public's thinking - which is where social networking sites come in.

3. The more people that join groups such as this, the more chance they have of being picked up by the media (case in point here), thus influencing more potential buyers.

4. In simple terms, think of it this way - if every potential buyer went on strike, most would agree this would have a huge impact on prices. Therefore, every buyer than can be put off will reduce prices by a small but measurable amount.

Given that joining the homebuyers strike involves a few clicks of a mouse, its not much of an effort really to possibly make a difference.

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Linky

It's not really sizeable yet. From small acorns...

Maybe an idea the UK FTBuyer market should take on.

Cut the oxygen supply off to the Ponzi scheme draining wealth from most of us

If the AUS government has any sense they will try to keep prices at reasonable levels. Cap mortgage lending LTV, tax property etc. Considering the problems vast property / construction bubbles have caused here, in the US, Spain, Ireland etc they should learn?

Unless they want an eventual debt crisis like the rest of the anglo world. If I was the AUS government I would intervene to stifle the rise of the dollar as well.

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Hate to burst your apathetic bubble but you're a long way of the mark, groups such as this serve a number of purposes:

1. They undermine the instinct to conform to social pressures ie the "must get on the ladder" mentality. Social Psych 101 - it only takes a handful of non-conformists to cause people to challenge these norms.

2. They take the hpc message to a much wider audience - much as I love the 'debates' here eg "I think prices will fall 20%"/"well I think they'll fall 25%" etc etc, they don't really do much to affect the general public's thinking - which is where social networking sites come in.

3. The more people that join groups such as this, the more chance they have of being picked up by the media (case in point here), thus influencing more potential buyers.

4. In simple terms, think of it this way - if every potential buyer went on strike, most would agree this would have a huge impact on prices. Therefore, every buyer than can be put off will reduce prices by a small but measurable amount.

Given that joining the homebuyers strike involves a few clicks of a mouse, its not much of an effort really to possibly make a difference.

Yes, these sorts of campaigns are often hugely influential. I understand that there was a website set up in the UK in late 2003 that only took four and a half years to crash the UK market by, erm, inducing massive subprime defaults in the USA through its insidious psychology.

Or alternatively, the market will revert to the mean as it always does, just never to the timetable we'd like.

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Yes, these sorts of campaigns are often hugely influential. I understand that there was a website set up in the UK in late 2003 that only took four and a half years to crash the UK market by, erm, inducing massive subprime defaults in the USA through its insidious psychology.

Or alternatively, the market will revert to the mean as it always does, just never to the timetable we'd like.

Sounds like you are persuaded by the old traditional understanding of economics - that economic fundamentals drive and shape everything in the market -? Economic theory has moved on and supports NEO72 position on the matter. Markets are not just shaped and directed by economic fundamentals but also by the discourse environment. See an old thread here about discourse and action:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=30244

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Hate to burst your apathetic bubble but you're a long way of the mark, groups such as this serve a number of purposes:

1. They undermine the instinct to conform to social pressures ie the "must get on the ladder" mentality. Social Psych 101 - it only takes a handful of non-conformists to cause people to challenge these norms.

2. They take the hpc message to a much wider audience - much as I love the 'debates' here eg "I think prices will fall 20%"/"well I think they'll fall 25%" etc etc, they don't really do much to affect the general public's thinking - which is where social networking sites come in.

3. The more people that join groups such as this, the more chance they have of being picked up by the media (case in point here), thus influencing more potential buyers.

4. In simple terms, think of it this way - if every potential buyer went on strike, most would agree this would have a huge impact on prices. Therefore, every buyer than can be put off will reduce prices by a small but measurable amount.

Given that joining the homebuyers strike involves a few clicks of a mouse, its not much of an effort really to possibly make a difference.

Lobbying clearly makes a difference. I know a lot of people on this site put in a lot of effort in posting on mainstream sites and I think this has a role in turning public opinion.

I just don't think that this particular effort is likely to succeed and I think it would be much more productive for people to put their efforts into other activities.

Edited by SteveAustin

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Yes, these sorts of campaigns are often hugely influential. I understand that there was a website set up in the UK in late 2003 that only took four and a half years to crash the UK market by, erm, inducing massive subprime defaults in the USA through its insidious psychology.

Or alternatively, the market will revert to the mean as it always does, just never to the timetable we'd like.

My mistake - clearly those billions spent each year on marketing (ie increasing demand for a product or service) are wasted since its all down to those pesky 'markets' and consumer sentiment doesn't play any role.

(Where's the "banging head against a brick wall" emoticon when you need it.)

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My mistake - clearly those billions spent each year on marketing (ie increasing demand for a product or service) are wasted since its all down to those pesky 'markets' and consumer sentiment doesn't play any role.

(Where's the "banging head against a brick wall" emoticon when you need it.)

All marketing can do is make you aware of a product and intice you to try it once. If the product is shit, that's where it ends.

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All marketing can do is make you aware of a product and intice you to try it once. If the product is shit, that's where it ends.

And yet millions of people buy 'shit' (& buy and eat 'shit' food), time after time following advertising campaigns, and following the development of discourse environments that create herd type behaviour - discourse environments that help people believe that it is 'smart' and 'fashionable' to buy a product ....... with the property market discourse environments that help people believe that if you rent and don't buy you can't get on with your life, you will miss the boat, that house prices only ever go up, that BTL investment is a one way bet, etc., etc. One of the defining characteristics of the Noughties house price boom was the way in which the VI's put very large amounts of money, time and effort into creating a discourse environment that was conducive to creating a feeding frenzy of property buying behaviour (obviously combined with the economic fundamentals such as availability of a wall of credit - but there was a very important and significant interaction between the economic fundamentals and the discourse environment - without such an effective discourse environment that wall of credit might have been channelled into a different asset or range of assets). Examples included all the TV Property Programmes ....

Whilst we, as a small group can do little to tackle economic fundamentals this is not nearly so true about the discourse environment. We can, with the facilities of the internet, effectively place alternative discourses about the property market and house prices in places that will reach very large numbers of people right across the country. This is why I go on about us using the Readers Comments facilities on national and local newspaper websites. And doing this costs zero money and takes as much time and effort as posting comments here on HPC.

The VI's have used, and shaped the property market related discourse environment to great effect. It is up to us whether we let them get away with it.

I would point out that traditional economic theory, based on economic fundamentals has always struggled to explain bubbles - they end up talking about the markets going beyond the fundamentals and becoming 'irrational'. Theory that includes 'discourse environments' helps to create a better understanding of these situations, and why bubbles can on longer than might otherwise be expected and why bubbles deflating can take longer than should be the case when looking at the economic fundamentals. And so on, and so on.

Edited by Alfie Moon

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All marketing can do is make you aware of a product and intice you to try it once. If the product is shit, that's where it ends.

My wife could go out and buy a pair of Manolo Blahnik shoes - cost approx £750. She could get a very similar pair on the highstreet for around 1/20th of that price.

Are the Manolo Blahniks 20 times 'better', or 20 times more desirable?

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My mistake - clearly those billions spent each year on marketing (ie increasing demand for a product or service) are wasted since its all down to those pesky 'markets' and consumer sentiment doesn't play any role.

(Where's the "banging head against a brick wall" emoticon when you need it.)

Ok, I'll try again without the sarcasm.

2003 - Housepricecrash.co.uk started

2008 - UK house prices turned negative due to some poor Americans defaulting 18 months earlier on mortgages they should never have been given

You don't need to convince me about the powers of marketing to persuade people to buy crap; I've watched a Formula 1 race.

However, let's not try to re-write history and pretend that HPC.co.uk turned the UK housing market, it was mainly a support group for like-minded individuals who wanted assurances that they weren't insane by not going with the crowdthink.

The Australian buyers' strike is different in what way exactly?

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All marketing can do is make you aware of a product and intice you to try it once. If the product is shit, that's where it ends.

Then how do you explain the continued existence of Greggs?

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I'm, with Paddles. We had 10,000 members on here and 3 times as many people reading the site before the credit crunch happened. I doubt in 6 months time there will be 500,000 people signed up to the Australian Buyers Strike. Be nice if there were.

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The one thing I don't understand is, why doesn't China just invade Oz? and take all these resources. Lets face it the Japanese were only one Island group away during the 1940's. Australia and NZ are a long way from any of the western world.

I wouldn't have thought there are any "fundamentals" in Oz.

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Probably the only reasonable thing the hard left youth organisation 'Get Up!' has been involved in.

Of course they also lobbied pro-carbon tax yesterday , estimates are that the carbon tax will raise the cost of building a house by $10,000-15,000.They're still horribly naive in my book.

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The one thing I don't understand is, why doesn't China just invade Oz? and take all these resources. Lets face it the Japanese were only one Island group away during the 1940's. Australia and NZ are a long way from any of the western world.

I wouldn't have thought there are any "fundamentals" in Oz.

Have you been drinking? Is that really a serious question?

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Linky

It's not really sizeable yet. From small acorns...

Maybe an idea the UK FTBuyer market should take on.

Cut the oxygen supply off to the Ponzi scheme draining wealth from most of us

Not sure why you would need a UK strike? It is happening in this country already anyway. Did anyone look at the latest transaction volumes and what proportion was made up by first time buyers?

As soon as the Banks started requiring 80%+ LTV to get a good mortgage rate FTB disappeared. Most are in debt and do not have £36k to put as a deposit. Even if they did sentiment is beginning to turn, most people around 30 have friends who bought and are now trapped.

Why risk your money in property which will likely decrease in value as IR increase.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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