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Talked to some casualties of the Pfizer shut down in Kent last night. He's a process engineer, she's a part time secretary, both made redundant and their jobs finish in a few months time.

They have a big detached period property in a tiny village. She was doing most of the talking and it was clear she's deep in denial. She won't sell the house (because they couldn't get "anything like it's real value"), she won't look at moving (because the children enjoy the local school and all their friends are there), and she doesn't want the husband to move away for work (because that's "splitting up the family and we'll never do that").

I think he gets it, that they face real upheaval, short term property losses, and maybe even a move abroad. But he's just not getting through to her that these are their practical options if they're to have any chance of preserving their living standards.

A couple of times during the conversation he pointed out that their village isn't a practical commute to London, and there are no other high paying employers in the area. He also grasps that their house is too big to suit a retiree and too high maintenance to rent. Without spelling it out he was hinting that by providing the jobs Pfizer basically underpinned the local property market I think he was using my presence to try and inject some realism into discussion, but every time he tried this she'd look daggers at him like he was spouting heresy and treachery.

She's a smart girl and eventually she'll wake up, but when she sells their "forever, dream home" at the current market price I suspect she'll go to her grave hating the buyer with a vengeance.

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Talked to some casualties of the Pfizer shut down in Kent last night. He's a process engineer, she's a part time secretary, both made redundant and their jobs finish in a few months time.

They have a big detached period property in a tiny village. She was doing most of the talking and it was clear she's deep in denial. She won't sell the house (because they couldn't get "anything like it's real value"), she won't look at moving (because the children enjoy the local school and all their friends are there), and she doesn't want the husband to move away for work (because that's "splitting up the family and we'll never do that").

I think he gets it, that they face real upheaval, short term property losses, and maybe even a move abroad. But he's just not getting through to her that these are their practical options if they're to have any chance of preserving their living standards.

A couple of times during the conversation he pointed out that their village isn't a practical commute to London, and there are no other high paying employers in the area. He also grasps that their house is too big to suit a retiree and too high maintenance to rent. Without spelling it out he was hinting that by providing the jobs Pfizer basically underpinned the local property market I think he was using my presence to try and inject some realism into discussion, but every time he tried this she'd look daggers at him like he was spouting heresy and treachery.

She's a smart girl and eventually she'll wake up, but when she sells their "forever, dream home" at the current market price I suspect she'll go to her grave hating the buyer with a vengeance.

Reality sucks...but unfortunately, reality must be dealt with.

I had a friend in Hampshire, married to a right cow, never liked her, they basically lived beyond their means for years, extravagant lifestyle, high earners too....they're now divorced, she's in council house and he's in a room in someone's house. Someone bought their house at the first house dip but still over-paid IMHO and the 60K equity they got 50K went on solicitors, the rest to the tax man.

Reality is a b**ch, but it haunts us all.

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A couple of times during the conversation he pointed out that their village isn't a practical commute to London, and there are no other high paying employers in the area. He also grasps that their house is too big to suit a retiree and too high maintenance to rent. Without spelling it out he was hinting that by providing the jobs Pfizer basically underpinned the local property market I think he was using my presence to try and inject some realism into discussion, but every time he tried this she'd look daggers at him like he was spouting heresy and treachery.

She's a smart girl and eventually she'll wake up, but when she sells their "forever, dream home" at the current market price I suspect she'll go to her grave hating the buyer with a vengeance.

It will take time for the reality to sink in , at present they are both still working and will both get a good pay off. Then they will start seeing that money drip away bit by bit and realize that the account is not being topped up every month.

I worked for GSK in Dartford who have just finished shuting down the plant they had there 4,000 jobs lost over 10 years. The biggest shock is for those where both partners work there as both lose their job not just one.

These big shutdowns do make me wonder where the jobs that support households and familys are going to come from in the future.

Tesco part time sh-t pay jobs are not going to replace them .

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I used to assume that people really took 25 years to pay back a mortgage but I hear from people in their 70s and 80s that there was a time when people bought modest houses and worked their pants off to pay back their mortgage as quickly as possible, to get out from under the cloud of uncertainty that being in debt brings, people had a healthy fear of debt. What is the betting this couple over aspired to their dream house working on the assumption that they were going to pay it back over 25 years, spending the rest of their executive style income on pointless tat. If this obviously well healed couple had bought more modest houses, struggled to pay off mortgage in 5 years and moved up to bigger houses etc things would be less drastic, but as OP calls it everyone wants their "forever, dream home" now.

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I would have given her a dose of reality - I hate this denial, usually from women in the relationship. He'd be better off without her.

I take it you're single then?

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Heard a story last week about a chap who was made redundant a couple of years ago. Used to be manager at a boatyard, on £50 k, in his 50s.

Wife went eeeeek! and divorced him. She lived in the house for 8 months, contributing nothing, while he paid the mortgage plus the rent for his new accomodation. House was always in his sole name, and has about £10k equity, bought in 1999 - fairly large second mortgage.

In the divorce settlement, he retained the house and let her walk with all the savings 'n pensions.

He's back in the house with a new partner. He got a job about a year ago, on £22k as a health & safety officer for a shipping company. He also has £48k unsecured debt, and is thinking of seeking a contribution from the new partner. He was a bit tentative about raising the issue!

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The reality is that this woman will not wake up to reality until they are divorced and the house is repossessed. The divorce rate during this crash is going to be monumental.

Unfortunately the powers that be have enacted policies that are going to drag the pain out for a very long time. It won't be an overnight fix for us to bring manufacturing and other real industries back to the UK.

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I used to assume that people really took 25 years to pay back a mortgage but I hear from people in their 70s and 80s that there was a time when people bought modest houses and worked their pants off to pay back their mortgage as quickly as possible, to get out from under the cloud of uncertainty that being in debt brings, people had a healthy fear of debt. What is the betting this couple over aspired to their dream house working on the assumption that they were going to pay it back over 25 years, spending the rest of their executive style income on pointless tat. If this obviously well healed couple had bought more modest houses, struggled to pay off mortgage in 5 years and moved up to bigger houses etc things would be less drastic, but as OP calls it everyone wants their "forever, dream home" now.

Yes but these types of people you mention also had the fairy god mother of wage inflation . They took out a 2/3 x salary mortgage that soon became very small compared to their growing earnings. Even those that did not pay it back as quickly as possible soon had the great advantage of a tiny debt that would not drag them under if they lost a job after a few years with the mortgage .

Remember taking out my first mortgage and talking to a guy I worked with who had had his mortgage for 9 years . He was paying £50 per month I was paying £100 per week , he had a 3 bed house in a better area than my two bed flat. Another guy I worked with took out the biggest mortgage he could and everyone at work said he was mad , but he said the costs of moving up the ladder will be saved and if property goes up the gap will widen if I move in a few years. That was 1985 and he has been proved right very quickley , even with the crash at the end of the 80's he was still streets ahead of the ladder had he taken out a smaller debt at the start.

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Talked to some casualties of the Pfizer shut down in Kent last night. He's a process engineer, she's a part time secretary, both made redundant and their jobs finish in a few months time.

They have a big detached period property in a tiny village. She was doing most of the talking and it was clear she's deep in denial. She won't sell the house (because they couldn't get "anything like it's real value"), she won't look at moving (because the children enjoy the local school and all their friends are there), and she doesn't want the husband to move away for work (because that's "splitting up the family and we'll never do that").

I think he gets it, that they face real upheaval, short term property losses, and maybe even a move abroad. But he's just not getting through to her that these are their practical options if they're to have any chance of preserving their living standards.

A couple of times during the conversation he pointed out that their village isn't a practical commute to London, and there are no other high paying employers in the area. He also grasps that their house is too big to suit a retiree and too high maintenance to rent. Without spelling it out he was hinting that by providing the jobs Pfizer basically underpinned the local property market I think he was using my presence to try and inject some realism into discussion, but every time he tried this she'd look daggers at him like he was spouting heresy and treachery.

She's a smart girl and eventually she'll wake up, but when she sells their "forever, dream home" at the current market price I suspect she'll go to her grave hating the buyer with a vengeance.

When we used to actually manufacture stuff in this country, I was known to buy up stock inventory when the manufacturer needed a cash injection. Obviously, I would only pay very low prices, typically well below cost of manufacture.

Although you'd think they'd be mightily peeved to be flogging the stuff off to someone for less than they spent making it typically they were just massively relieved that they could find anyone at all who either wanted to buy it and more importantly could actually afford to buy it.

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When we used to actually manufacture stuff in this country, I was known to buy up stock inventory when the manufacturer needed a cash injection. Obviously, I would only pay very low prices, typically well below cost of manufacture.

Although you'd think they'd be mightily peeved to be flogging the stuff off to someone for less than they spent making it typically they were just massively relieved that they could find anyone at all who either wanted to buy it and more importantly could actually afford to buy it.

Poundland?

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I would have given her a dose of reality - I hate this denial, usually from women in the relationship. He'd be better off without her.

Yep, get shot PDQ if she is of that mentality; Nothing worse than a woman wanting to keep up with the neighbours. Best thing i ever did and this recession/HPC has lost the ex £50K and saved ne the same.......long may it continue.

Edited by jungllie jim

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Denial is one of the biggies that we all have to deal with in life.

It manifests itself in different ways at various points in our life. Sounds like there is some serious denial going on with one half of that couple at present.

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Yes but these types of people you mention also had the fairy god mother of wage inflation . They took out a 2/3 x salary mortgage that soon became very small compared to their growing earnings. Even those that did not pay it back as quickly as possible soon had the great advantage of a tiny debt that would not drag them under if they lost a job after a few years with the mortgage .

They also didn’t notice how times had changed to a much lower inflation/interest rate environment and advised their kids to do the same thing they’d done i.e. load up on as much mortgage debt as possible because “things would get easier after a few years”.

As to the OP, I heard a story last week but concerning a manager in the public sector on his way out of a job he’d been in for years. He has a couple of young kids, their life-style is modest, ordinary car, camping holidays in Wales every summer etc. As a family they only have one outrageously expensive indulgence, an average family house in a South-Eastern commuter town!

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As to the OP, I heard a story last week but concerning a manager in the public sector on his way out of a job he’d been in for years. He has a couple of young kids, their life-style is modest, ordinary car, camping holidays in Wales every summer etc. As a family they only have one outrageously expensive indulgence, an average family house in a South-Eastern commuter town!

Once heard an old lady say

" how people are with money they will always be , those are not that good with it will always be the same unless they make a massive vow to change those that are carefull and save will always save " She also said it is not just about amounts ,

" there are those who manage well on little and those who don't there are also those with plenty but are always broke "

Having heard this and looking around over the years since I think it is very true.

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Denial is one of the biggies that we all have to deal with in life.

It manifests itself in different ways at various points in our life. Sounds like there is some serious denial going on with one half of that couple at present.

No! No. No. No. No TMT. Denial is almost non-existent. I'm certainly not in denial. :D

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[quote name='silver surfer' timestamp='1301579493' post='2946160'

...But he's just not getting through to her that these are their practical options if they're to have any chance of preserving their living standards.

...

She's a smart girl and eventually she'll wake up, but when she sells their "forever, dream home" at the current market price I suspect she'll go to her grave hating the buyer with a vengeance.

He will get the blame and had better start filling out the CSA forms.

Excuse my cynicism but I've seen it twice in the last 6 months.

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For the couple in the original post perhaps the situation is not as bad as it seems.

They will both get a payoff to cushion the blow. The government will cover the interest on their mortgage. They will be entitled to a range of benefits in addition to those that they currently get for having kids. The costs of travel to work and childcare will vanish. They will be able to spend more time as a family. There will be more time to shop around for bargains. They will have no more income tax or national insurance to pay.

Could be better than working.

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In those circumstances, I'd call that a "pathological delusion."

when I was younger and more foolish - cough, ok, just younger - I used to call it 'nice t*ts' ; probably the same thing tho'

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Seems to be a reoccurring theme with threads like this. Basically the more people earn and are successful, the bigger the shock when reality bites. Sadly it seems lifestyle is the only incentive to do well in this country, and the only thing that tends to keep people together.

A lovely environment to encourage risk taking entrepreneurship, not.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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